Avalanche beacon

[IceIceBaby]

I need two of those...but I’m a gumby when it comes to pick one.

Any experience, recommendations, and top 3 contestants I need info before I commit to buying them

 

[snoboy]

IMO - DTS Tracker or Barryvox or SOS F1-ND, everything else seems to have issues

 

Stay away from Ortovox.

 

Read telemark tips for long winded discussions of which beacon is best, see also the recent avvy beacon thread.

 

PM me if you want me to justify the choices here. I've been doing lots of research lately, and have lots of good links.

 

I ended up with the Barryvox BTW.

[jaee]

Yo Snoboy,

Please justify your outright dismissal of Ortovox. I believe that the M2 still has one of the longest ranges of any beacon out there. I can understand if you don't want to train with a beacon why you'd want a tracker, but I believe that the M2 is a great beacon in the hands of a skilled user. I don't know much about the X1, but I did notice that it's priced below the M2, leading me to believe that the X1 is all digital but still underperforms the M2 in range and sensitivity.

[snoboy]

I think a lot of this has been covered recently at:

 

recent beacon thread

Please justify your outright dismissal of Ortovox.[snip] I can understand if you don't want to train with a beacon why you'd want a tracker, but I believe that the M2 is a great beacon in the hands of a skilled user. I don't know much about the X1, but I did notice that it's priced below the M2, leading me to believe that the X1 is all digital but still underperforms the M2 in range and sensitivity.

 

I knew I was going to draw some heat with that comment. I always liked the Ortovox, and I still use an F1. However I have read, and of course it is the one article I can't find right now, that the Ortovox is often testing outside the range of frequencies for the beacon standard, and that they have been informed of this and not responded. That gives me serious reservations about there products in genenral, even though they obviously work in the field.

 

As to the M2: All beacons are good in the hands of an experienced user. I bet there are people out there who could find me as fast with an old SKADI (if it was 457), as with any new fangled beeping digital unit. I have also heard from pros (ie patrol) that in multiple beacon scenarios you really hope there aren't too many M2's down there, because the high pulse rate just make things even more confusing.

 

I don't believe that any beacon, including the Tracker, is good for use without training. Sure I can find one beacon easy with it, but throw in two or more, and it's just as complex a search as anything else.

 

The X1, well check out the telemarktips.com forum for a real blast against it. For that matter check out where I quoted it in the recent beacon thread:

 

Not sounding too good for the X-1

 

From TelemarkTips :

As you can probably tell, I am very disappointed with the X-1. Testing one briefly in a store will not give you an accurate representation of how this beacon will work in the field. Personally, I feel that the Ortovox F-1 focus is a better product than the X-1 and that the BCA Tracker is better still. DO NOT buy an X-1 thinking that it will be as easy to use as the Tracker, have the range of the F-1, or represent the latest in beacon technology. The X-1 is very disappointing given the technology that is available today. My wife summed it up very well when she said, “I don’t want anybody searching for me with this beacon.”

 

Heres the link to the discussion thread:X1 thread on tt.com

 

One thing to add to the fire is this poorly translated test report summary forwarded to me by the Barryvox rep. Betcha can't guess which beacon it favours...

 

[edit] Tried to attach it in PDF, not sure how to do that apparently. PM me if you want it.[/edit]

Edited December 5, 2002 by snoboy

[Toast]

There are two very good articles in Couloir Magazine that discuss avy beacons, the digital vs analogue debate and preview of models on the market. Take a look... http://www.couloirmag.com/Gear/gear_index.htm

 

 

[Highlander]

Buy an avalung and get an avy poodle.

[jaee]

Snoboy,

Thanks for the info, just wanted to call your hand. I've used ortovox since the F2 (yuk) and had nothing but good luck with them. You do have good info.

 

So far I've also used old trackers and the Arva 9000. The trackers seem to work well for folks with less practice. The arvas work well but there is a pause whenever you move away from the victim that takes some getting used to and wastes a few seconds. Another problem with the Arva is the switch to change modes is very easy to bump back to transmit while running during a search, leading to some confusion and more wasted time.

[snoboy]

Here is some more good reading for you all. DTS Tech reports page

I was out in the soccer fields today playing with the new Barryvox. I like it. Mostly in default mode today, I will report more when I have a chance to do some multiple "burials" and such.

 

So for this winter I will have an Orto F1 Focus, and a Barryvox on the go. F1 will be my beacon when I'm out with my girlfriend, and the B-vox, when she's not skiing.

[fern]

you should test it with multiple burials in the same pit. that can be tricky. before my CAA course I did beacon searches at the beach at night. dark + logs to jump over + running in sand = challenging.

[thelawgoddess]

So for this winter I will have an Orto F1 Focus, and a Barryvox on the go. F1 will be my beacon when I'm out with my girlfriend, and the B-vox, when she's not skiing.

 

???

[iain]

I've found my Tracker works best on Thursdays after eating a peanut butter sandwich.

[thelawgoddess]

I've found my Tracker works best on Thursdays after eating a peanut butter sandwich.

 

ahh, yes. snoboy must be operating on some similar logic. but somehow, yours still makes more sense.

[forrest_m]

tlg, he means that when he goes out with his girl, he gives her the beacon that is easier to use, presumably because she is not as experienced at beacon search. he uses it himself if he is alone. (for the buried person, it doesn't really matter which beacon they have)

[fern]

I don't get what you find so confusing ... must be a 49th parallel thing

[thelawgoddess]

snoboy's post was rather ambiguous and borderline sexist, that's all. forrest, thanks for letting me know what he was REALLY thinking.

[snoboy]

snoboy's post was rather ambiguous and borderline sexist,

Now I am the very confused one Please explain how my post even approaches sexist? Re-reading it I can see how it might be confusing though... forrest has it right though, except the part where I use the B-vox when I am alone!!! I justt get to use it when she isn't along for the day.

[Pro Mountain Sports]

Does anybody have a Tracker they wouldn't mind bringing by the store so we could play with it awhile?

[allthumbs]

dude, don't try to figure it out. nobody understands women.

[iain]

Freedom of the Hills, chapter 8 trask, check it out.

[Beck]

practice, practice, practice...

 

The X-1 has the greatest range of any of the digi processors out there, the Tracker is the easiest to use with little praxctice, the F-1 is an industry standard. I think the Barryvox would be EXTREMELY confusing while in the adrenaline of a real live accident, buttons/options may work well when you've got a cool head of "this is only a drill" but when your spouse or buddy is at the bottom of the pile, your head is going to have a lot of freakin' static going on!

 

I've practiced in the field with everyone except the Barryvox and the X-1.

In the field, i've watched people with trackers miss a burial at 25 meters.

 

looks like shooting a flux line with the x-1 will work good if you know the "Two steps, sweep, sweep, redirect" style of searching, same way you want to shoot any flux line search, versus the "same alignment" positioning in a classic long range grid to define your search area.

 

My two cents, if i ever get a day off work i'm going up with a barryvox and an x-1 and a couple burial beacons, see how they compare. Will post a day, if people want to join me up at Snoqualamie for some beacon work and a bit of touring.

[snoboy]

[edit]

Beck said,"the Barryvox and The Tracker are digital beacons but are very easy for an inexperienced user to use", but now he says,"I think the Barryvox would be EXTREMELY confusing while in the adrenaline of a real live accident"

 

[/edit]

 

 

I don't know how many times this has to be said, but:

 

"The Barryvox does not need to be confusing. The options are set up ahead of time. The only options available in search mode are analog or digital."

 

As for the X-1, I think this is pretty damning:

 

From the www.telemarktips.com Avy Safety forum (bold mine):

 

Although this topic has come up a few times recently, there has not really been much info shared due to the newness of the beacon. So I will share my observations after actually using one.......

 

I finally got my shipment of X-1s in from Ortovox and have been putting it through the wringer for the last two days to see what I think. As promised earlier in the year, I am posting my opinions about the X-1. I’ll preface my opinion by saying that I have had fairly extensive experience with both digital and analog beacons over the last 10 years and own a retail business that sells only avalanche equipment.

 

The X-1 comes in a familiar looking package similar to the F-1 focus that has been popular for years. It is red with slightly different dials and a digital readout in the center. Above the digital readout are 3 lights that point the user in the 10,12, and 2 O clock positions. The strap is the same tight weave strap Ortovox has always used, with the “on” switch at the end of the strap. The beacon is operational only with the strap plugged in to the beacon. Rudimentary instructions are printed on the back of the beacon and a green LED on the side flashes when the beacon is transmitting. All in all, a fairly standard and familiar Ortovox setup.

 

Digital

On the box that the X-1 came in (and in recent ads), Ortovox claims “the X-1 is the first fully automatic digital, user friendly avalanche transceiver”. I don’t know where Ortovox thinks users have been since 1997 when the BCA Tracker came out, but this is obviously a blatant lie. To top that off, the X-1 is really only half digital. The directional lights and digital capabilities only function within 10 meters of the victim and there are no visual clues whatsoever above 35 meters.

 

Range

The X-1 claims to have a range of 65 meters, but again, this is wrong. In fact, only at about 45-50 meters was I able to get any type of signal at all. Because the operational range of any beacon is dependent on many factors, I conducted numerous searches with the X-1 and the transmitting beacon in different positions and orientations. 45- 50 meters was still the maximum range. A little misleading is the assumption that this is a digital beacon with directional capabilities. There are no directional signals until you are within 10 meters of the victim. Further, there are only audio signals (noises) until you are within 35 meters of the victim. At 35 meters, numbers are displayed on the digital readout and are coupled with sounds of increasing intensity. Supposedly, as you get closer to the victim, the numbers decrease and the sounds get louder and more erratic. However, there was very little change in the audio signal between 45 meters and 20 meters and the numbers on the readout would jump from 35 to as low as 12 with movement of only a few meters. This made it very confusing to determine which way to go. The digital readout above 10 meters is almost useless because the numbers are so erratic. Basically, this translates to a useable range of about 10-20 meters for the beacon that is being billed as having a superior range. Another flaw was that even within the 10 meter range the sound had little variation until you were within 1.5-2 meters from the victim. Considering many victims are buried at this depth, it makes that feature useless as well. It also seemed that the microprocessor could not keep up with how fast I was moving, eventually overestimating the direction in which to go. This made for a longer tangent line (more curve) and more time to get to the victim. Very disappointing.

 

Multiple Burials

Ortovox claims that in multiple burial situations with the X-1 “the victims signals can be isolated automatically for identifying each of their burial locations”. This is apparently another lie, because there is nothing automatic about it. In fact, there is not even a special mode for multiple burials like there is on other beacons. Instructions say to mark the first spot where multiple signals are received, find one of the signals, and then return to the mark and find the other signal again. There is nothing automatic about that.

 

Revert to Transmit Mode

If you are searching for a victim and another avalanche hits, the X-1 has no automatic revert mode so that you can be found. You have to hope that you can make the switch back to transmit mode manually before the avalanche hits you.

 

As you can probably tell, I am very disappointed with the X-1. Testing one briefly in a store will not give you an accurate representation of how this beacon will work in the field. Personally, I feel that the Ortovox F-1 focus is a better product than the X-1 and that the BCA Tracker is better still. DO NOT buy an X-1 thinking that it will be as easy to use as the Tracker, have the range of the F-1, or represent the latest in beacon technology. The X-1 is very disappointing given the technology that is available today. My wife summed it up very well when she said, “I don’t want anybody searching for me with this beacon.”

 

These are just my impressions and opinions after working the beacon over for the last two days. Please feel free to share any insights or observations that you have as well. I am also happy to answer any questions that I may know the answer to. I am not spansered or sponsored by any beacon company and am only trying to add to the safety and knowledge of the backcountry community.

 

There are other impressions in the same thread but this one seemed pretty well thought out.

 

Edited December 20, 2002 by snoboy

[Beck]

hey snow boy, no offence, i'm just trying to help. I stated both the tracker, and the barryvox would be easy to use for inexperienced user, referencing the digital dual antenna directionality of them (in a previous post )

 

but when i go and try the barryvox, i find it confusing. It must be related to me being stupid, but i find in confusing. simple as that.

 

but you say the Barryvox doesn't NEED to be confusing. Does that mean it CAN be confusing? I'm convinced that in the urgency of an emergency situation, a beacon with a lot of options may confuse the user. for the last five years I've practiced extensively with beacons, taught buddies how to search, trained in rescue scenarios, run drills several times a year with beacons, and have found, even in a practice scenario, simple mistakes are made by the coolest of heads. (you must be upset when you encounter opinions different from your own,boy)

 

People forget all sorts of things. People screw up. What if a user of Barryvox, looking for his wife in an actual slide, gets mixed up on what the heck the options were to begin with?

 

I've tried x-1 and the Barryvox out in the gear store i work at, and they both seem to have some issues, but i am reserving my opinions until i test them both , maybe the day after christmas, if anyone wants to go.

Again, however, i think there are some problems with the processor speed of the ortovox x1.

 

X-1 still has twice the range, and I'm betting a skilled user who practices with it will get a grip on how to use it. But, it may continue to be problematic in the ways Dr. Telemark describes it.

 

Grid search to define parameters, solid signal, then

"step, step, Stop in track, sweep,sweep, redirect. repeat."

 

maybe the F1 is still the way to go, or the tracker for a second for someone who wouldn't have practiced much with one.

 

but i need to bring them out in the field. I am of the opinion (only an opinion, but based on lots of field testing) that a beacon with the greatest receive range is desirable.

 

I continue to use the F1 and probably won't replace it until the beacon does the digging for you!

Edited December 20, 2002 by Beck

[snoboy]

I'm glad no offence. I was worried you would take some of my post the wrong way. Except it's snoboy not "snow boy"

 

The B-vox could be confusing while you are setting it up, if you weren't familiar with beacons in general, or weren't prone to RTFM. In practice it seems to me that the factory settings work very well, as it comes out of the box. If you need to change settings, then you probably know why and what you are doing. If you don't, maybe b/c skiing isn't your thing.

 

I mean an F1 has transmit/recieve, as well as 5 volume settings, which could be considered options, no? They certainly can be confusing on bad days.

 

X-1 has twice the range of what?? And Avman over on tttips.com didn't seem to think it was anywhere near the published range.

 

I would love to actually try out an X-1. I like my old F-1, and continue to use it also but I think the B-vox is an improvement over it. That's why I bought one.

[snoboy]

Just talked to a proffesional ski guide friend of mine who had a chance to try out the X-1 recently in training week. He pretty much said what Avman did on the tttips.com board.

 

I wish I could try one of these things out for myself.

[jhamaker]

I vote Tracker for ease of use. Have they "fixed" the harness yet?