26 dead in Connecticut elementary school

[tvashtarkatena]

Nope, but you can punish. end, remove, and deter it. Force of law does that every damn day of the week.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[matt_warfield]

Nope, but you can punish. end, remove, and deter it. Force of law does that every damn day of the week.

 

 

 

 

Only for common citizens. Criminally inclined always find a way. Depending on how long they are in prison. And they don't really care how long. Then back out and do it again. It's their lifestyle.

Edited December 17, 2012 by matt_warfield

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

If she had guns in a lockbox and not in the closet or under the pillow or under the couch this could have been prevented.

 

It is a terrible tragedy but owning guns is a big responsibility.

 

How do you know that she did not have them in a lock box?

 

Well, we definitely know that she failed to keep them secure one way or another, didn't she? That's how responsibility works. It was her job to be responsible for those guns. She failed.

 

Oh, and let's not forget this is not a minor living in the home - the perpetrator was a grown adult, aged 20. And yes, that matters.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

She would have to have kept the code a secret. Which is kind of the purpose of a lockbox or gun cabinet.

 

Kind of like keeping your computer password a secret? That's 100% fool-proof, right?

[matt_warfield]

 

If she had guns in a lockbox and not in the closet or under the pillow or under the couch this could have been prevented.

 

It is a terrible tragedy but owning guns is a big responsibility.

 

How do you know that she did not have them in a lock box?

 

Well, we definitely know that she failed to keep them secure one way or another, didn't she? That's how responsibility works. It was her job to be responsible for those guns. She failed.

 

Oh, and let's not forget this is not a minor living in the home - the perpetrator was a grown adult, aged 20. And yes, that matters.

 

Yes it does! But she needed to stay aware of his general demeanor.

 

Just for the hell of it I will say my son was a schizophrenic, which I will bet is this dude's problem. My son committed suicide instead of killing 26 people.

 

This is why I am so involved in this thread.

[KirkW]

 

Yes it does! But she needed to stay aware of his general demeanor.

 

Just for the hell of it I will say my son was a schizophrenic, which I will bet is this dude's problem. My son committed suicide instead of killing 26 people.

 

This is why I am so involved in this thread.

 

So do you take personal responsibility for the death of your son?

[matt_warfield]

Nope,

 

You develop schizophrenia and are generally male and it develops in the late teens or early twenties. Look familiar? If you ever been around a paranoid schizophrenic you should try it sometime.

 

Also people get cancer, break limbs and get other diseases that are not their parent's fault. So shut the fuck up.

 

This Mom didn't survive as did did not 25 others.

 

It is serious business.

Edited December 17, 2012 by matt_warfield

[KirkW]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

Well, that's Rob's assertion, so you might ask him.

[rob]

Nope,

 

You develop schizophrenia and are generally male and it develops in the late teens or early twenties. Look familiar? If you ever been around a paranoid schizophrenic you should try it sometime.

 

Also people get cancer, break limbs and get other diseases that are not their parent's fault. So shut the fuck up.

 

This Mom didn't survive as did did not 25 others.

 

It is serious business.

 

+1

 

Ex-wife for me. Most people don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[rob]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

Well, that's Rob's assertion, so you might ask him.

 

Yes, when you purchase weapons of killing, YOU ARE THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE. This isn't a hard concept to get. If you cannot wrap your head around the fact that it is up to you, and no one else, to keep the guns safe and secure, then you have no business owning them. What the fuck? Obviously the guns were not kept secure enough. Obviously. How can you dispute this?

 

As tvash says, maybe the only way to have them secure enough is to not have them. I'm selling mine. Want them? Mostly shotguns. They're just not worth it anymore.

[KirkW]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

Well, that's Rob's assertion, so you might ask him.

 

please translate this for me then...

 

Originally Posted By: matt_warfield

 

 

If she had guns in a lockbox and not in the closet or under the pillow or under the couch this could have been prevented.

 

It is a terrible tragedy but owning guns is a big responsibility.

[jon]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

It's funny that when it comes to gun rights this is a question, but if you substituted any other situation the answer is clear. Let's try it out.

 

- The bank left the vault unlocked when the robbery took place and they stole all the cash in it.

- The soldiers left the nuclear payload unsecured when the insurgents attacked the base.

- You left your car unlocked and the thief stole the belongings.

 

This women had some clear choices being faced with an unstable son. Secure the weapons in such a way he would never be able to get them OR just get rid of them. She choose not to.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

It's funny that when it comes to gun rights this is a question, but if you substituted any other situation the answer is clear. Let's try it out.

 

- The bank left the vault unlocked when the robbery took place and they stole all the cash in it.

- The soldiers left the nuclear payload unsecured when the insurgents attacked the base.

- You left your car unlocked and the thief stole the belongings.

 

This women had some clear choices being faced with an unstable son. Secure the weapons in such a way he would never be able to get them OR just get rid of them. She choose not to.

 

Wrong. If you leave your car unlocked and someone steals from you, it is still theft, they still committed a crime, not you. The owner is not charged with theft. Ditto for the bank vault.

 

Good luck charging this woman for the crime, BTW. Prosecute her to the full extent of the law!

[rob]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

It's funny that when it comes to gun rights this is a question, but if you substituted any other situation the answer is clear. Let's try it out.

 

- The bank left the vault unlocked when the robbery took place and they stole all the cash in it.

- The soldiers left the nuclear payload unsecured when the insurgents attacked the base.

- You left your car unlocked and the thief stole the belongings.

 

This women had some clear choices being faced with an unstable son. Secure the weapons in such a way he would never be able to get them OR just get rid of them. She choose not to.

 

And like any other type of security system, it's always obvious when it wasn't enough. And always too late.

[rob]

 

Yes it does! But she needed to stay aware of his general demeanor.

 

Just for the hell of it I will say my son was a schizophrenic, which I will bet is this dude's problem. My son committed suicide instead of killing 26 people.

 

This is why I am so involved in this thread.

 

So do you take personal responsibility for the death of your son?

 

By the way, I know this isn't my fight, but let me be the first to say: fuck you

[ivan]

Nope,

 

You develop schizophrenia and are generally male and it develops in the late teens or early twenties. Look familiar? If you ever been around a paranoid schizophrenic you should try it sometime.

 

Also people get cancer, break limbs and get other diseases that are not their parent's fault. So shut the fuck up.

 

This Mom didn't survive as did did not 25 others.

 

It is serious business.

sorry to hear that man - as a high-school teacher i've had the sad occasion to see schizophrenia emerge in some of my kids, always guys, as you say - humans hardly work well even in prime health...

[KirkW]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

It's funny that when it comes to gun rights this is a question, but if you substituted any other situation the answer is clear. Let's try it out.

 

- The bank left the vault unlocked when the robbery took place and they stole all the cash in it.

- The soldiers left the nuclear payload unsecured when the insurgents attacked the base.

- You left your car unlocked and the thief stole the belongings.

 

This women had some clear choices being faced with an unstable son. Secure the weapons in such a way he would never be able to get them OR just get rid of them. She choose not to.

 

What the fuck are you talking about? Leaving your car unlocked is asking to be robbed? I suppose wearing a short skirt is asking to be raped?

 

What's with needing to blame anyone other than the person who did this horrible deed? There is only one person responsible for the actions of Adam Lanza. Adam Lanza.

 

This cute little thread you guys have going here showing just how much you care about "the children" is much more entertaining than a dozen pages of insults lobbed at Kevbone for pointing out that horrendous shit happens all the time.

 

 

[ivan]

actually, i'm on the record kirk for NOT caring about the kids

[KirkW]

That you are duder. Just like my partner who's taught Special Ed for nearly a decade now. She's only in it for the easy money, plush bennies and copious amounts of free time it allows her.

[jon]

Kirk and KK, how about you share your vision on how to prevent this from happening again? Because it will happen another three times in the next year at this rate. Or do we just accept this as part of the American dream?

[G-spotter]

But Mrs. Lanza is responsible for the actions of her adult son because he was able to figure out how to steal her guns and kill her with them?

 

It's funny that when it comes to gun rights this is a question, but if you substituted any other situation the answer is clear. Let's try it out.

 

- The bank left the vault unlocked when the robbery took place and they stole all the cash in it.

- The soldiers left the nuclear payload unsecured when the insurgents attacked the base.

- You left your car unlocked and the thief stole the belongings.

 

This women had some clear choices being faced with an unstable son. Secure the weapons in such a way he would never be able to get them OR just get rid of them. She choose not to.

 

What the fuck are you talking about? Leaving your car unlocked is asking to be robbed? I suppose wearing a short skirt is asking to be raped?

 

What's with needing to blame anyone other than the person who did this horrible deed? There is only one person responsible for the actions of Adam Lanza. Adam Lanza.

 

This cute little thread you guys have going here showing just how much you care about "the children" is much more entertaining than a dozen pages of insults lobbed at Kevbone for pointing out that horrendous shit happens all the time.

 

 

Ultimately, it is the persons of full mental competence who are responsible for those of diminished mental competence who depend on them. Lanza may have been legally an adult (20 yrs old) but it sounds like he was autism spectrum and/or Aspergers so that makes his mother his keeper IMHO. She bears some responsibility for this which being a victim does not absolve her of. In the same way thatr if an 8 yr old shoots his 6 yr old brother with Daddy's gun, Daddy is at fault even though he's also a victim, being the parent of a dead child and a killer.

[G-spotter]

Also:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/16/f-rfa-macdonald-guns.html?cmp=rss

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Kirk and KK, how about you share your vision on how to prevent this from happening again? Because it will happen another three times in the next year at this rate. Or do we just accept this as part of the American dream?

 

I like Joe Lieberman's idea of having a bipartisan commission study these incidents and come up with a set of recommendations. The most likely actions would span a number of areas including, but not limited to, mental health assessment and treatment, evaluating the entertainment industry's role, and, of course, gun control.

 

It is also on us all to help prevent these things from occurring - getting to know your neighbor, that problem/quirky kid, and yes, maybe being a "snitch" and proactively reporting someone that is "off", stockpiling weapons,etc.

 

I've already posted above my thoughts on gun control I'd support. Scroll up. But let's be realistic, we have a stockpile of weapons in this country and a gun culture, so these events will still happen no matter what. It will take time to reduce them. This ship would turn very slowly.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Ultimately, it is the persons of full mental competence who are responsible for those of diminished mental competence who depend on them. Lanza may have been legally an adult (20 yrs old) but it sounds like he was autism spectrum and/or Aspergers so that makes his mother his keeper IMHO. She bears some responsibility for this which being a victim does not absolve her of. In the same way thatr if an 8 yr old shoots his 6 yr old brother with Daddy's gun, Daddy is at fault even though he's also a victim, being the parent of a dead child and a killer.

 

Many functioning adults in this society are autism spectrum/Asperger's and they are not in some custodial relationship with some "healthy" adult that is responsible for them. Do a news search and you'll see autism advocacy groups are getting pissed already at the attempts to linke autism/Asperger's to violent behavior.