Rescue on Mt Hood

[tvashtarkatena]

Perhaps the let-im-die crowd could draft a helpful missive articulating their thoughts to the gentleman's mother. I'm sure she's easily found on FB.

 

Perhaps certain posters might also take a break from professional killing to regain a sense of perspective about what kind of society they believe they're "protecting", and I use that term very, very loosely.

 

It's easy as pie to say some idiot should die for making an error in judgement, or simply getting mother nature's intentions wrong, on the internet. It probably wouldn't be quite as easy to explain your position to a room full of the family, children, friends, and colleagues who would be devastated by such a loss.

 

I've been one of those surviving friends - I've been in that room - several times.

 

Seriously, get a grip.

Edited December 5, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[AlpineK]

I may think Glassgowkiss is an asshole, but he is right on all accounts. Fuck this guy. He endangered other people by forcing them to brave the same conditions he was too afraid to confront. Fuck him in his motherfucking ass. If your shit ain't broke, walk your ass down or die trying. Yeah, your life is worth a couple dozen guy's lives because you were too unprepared to deal with the consequences of your actions.

 

So, let him die? Is that what you are saying, alcoholteke?

 

Rescue yes. The next obvious step is forcing him to apologize for being a dumbshit on Facebook. Maybe pay for a basic mountaineering class for him or someone with fewer financial resources.

[G-spotter]

[mountainsandsound]

It appears as though there is a need for a specific thread designed to satisfy Star Wars fetishes.

 

There was a Hippie drum circle and some Pirates BS category in Spray, sounds like Star Wars would have some takers.

 

Hey, what was the name of that one beast that Luke killed in the 3rd one at Jaba's palace? Gate slammed on his head?

[rob]

Rancor, duh!!! Native to the planet Dathomir.

[ivan]

glad to see i resisted an urge that you could not rob

 

alpha-neeeeeeeerd!

[Jim]

The guy made a mistake - or several. Glad he stopped and called for assistance when he knew he was at his limit. My advice: check the friggin' weather report.

 

The facebook thing. FB is weird enough. The need for 15 minutes of fame, or less, seems to be a continued preoccupation for some.

[akhalteke]

I may think Glassgowkiss is an asshole, but he is right on all accounts. Fuck this guy. He endangered other people by forcing them to brave the same conditions he was too afraid to confront. Fuck him in his motherfucking ass. If your shit ain't broke, walk your ass down or die trying. Yeah, your life is worth a couple dozen guy's lives because you were too unprepared to deal with the consequences of your actions.

 

please put down the crack pipe.

 

Fuck off.

[akhalteke]

I may think Glassgowkiss is an asshole, but he is right on all accounts. Fuck this guy. He endangered other people by forcing them to brave the same conditions he was too afraid to confront. Fuck him in his motherfucking ass. If your shit ain't broke, walk your ass down or die trying. Yeah, your life is worth a couple dozen guy's lives because you were too unprepared to deal with the consequences of your actions.

 

So, let him die? Is that what you are saying, alcoholteke?

 

Well, bare minimum, charge him for the rescue. In reality, he didn't need it and really shouldn't have died if he were prepared, so let him find his own goddamn way down. SAR has the ability to get his location off phone pings to a pretty narrow window. Give him his location and let him take the rest from there.

[akhalteke]

Perhaps the let-im-die crowd could draft a helpful missive articulating their thoughts to the gentleman's mother. I'm sure she's easily found on FB.

 

Perhaps certain posters might also take a break from professional killing to regain a sense of perspective about what kind of society they believe they're "protecting", and I use that term very, very loosely.

 

It's easy as pie to say some idiot should die for making an error in judgement, or simply getting mother nature's intentions wrong, on the internet. It probably wouldn't be quite as easy to explain your position to a room full of the family, children, friends, and colleagues who would be devastated by such a loss.

 

I've been one of those surviving friends - I've been in that room - several times.

 

Seriously, get a grip.

 

What if a rescuer died trying to save a guy that was in no predicament at all? What would you say to their families? What would you say to Nick Hall's parents if the guy he was saving was a two bit assclown who didn't have the guts to get down a mountain? Because I have been in THAT room with THOSE people...

 

Boofuckinghooo, take responsibility for you actions (or inactions). If I were the incident commander, I would tell him where he was at and tell him a direction and azimuth and wait for him with some hot coco and an ass chewing.

[akhalteke]

Oh and Tvash... Didn't you imply that you were some Navy Seal or some kind of other "professional killer? Hypocrite or a liar, take your pick you pathetic bitch.

[akhalteke]

 

Nail, meet head...

[ivan]

What if a rescuer died trying to save a guy that was in no predicament at all?

what if the same rescuer died trying to save a guy who waited until the absolute last minute to ask for help? fuck it, whatever - if you devote your life to saving people, you pretty much accept that you could get killed b/c people are dipshits, much like, if you join the military, you can get killed b/c your civilian leaders are clueless monkey-fuckers...

[ivan]

Oh and Tvash... Didn't you imply that you were some Navy Seal or some kind of other "professional killer? Hypocrite or a liar, take your pick you pathetic bitch.

no, but he has talked about being at annapolis for awhile before saying fuckit.

 

can't see old'boy as a professional killer of anythign 'cept powdered donuts (and holy shit, don't go under-estimating on that account!)

[akhalteke]

What if a rescuer died trying to save a guy that was in no predicament at all?

what if the same rescuer died trying to save a guy who waited until the absolute last minute to ask for help? fuck it, whatever - if you devote your life to saving people, you pretty much accept that you could get killed b/c people are dipshits, much like, if you join the military, you can get killed b/c your civilian leaders are clueless monkey-fuckers...

 

I think that is taking it to the proverbial "Hitler Zenith." Sure, you assume some risk, but throwing yourself into conditions that are "too dangerous" for a man to descend sounds kinda fishy. Either you are risking too much to save him or he is being a giant pussy. In this case it is the latter. Anyone who has worked for SAR would see the issue with this thinking. Rescuer safety is paramount because as the adage goes, you can't save anyone when you are dead and you don't want an "incident within an incident."

 

Now with the military, they just send of to our deaths to make an extra couple cents... No surprise there.

[ivan]

i look at everything through my own lens - i wouldn't become an SAR guy unless i was at peace w/ risking my life to go get stupid gits, much like (as in my real profession) i wouldn't become a teacher w/o willing to deal w/ (on a daily basis) folks who couldn't give a brass-fuck about the things of the brain...

[akhalteke]

...and that is the line of thinking that I take with my involvement in SAR. It doesn't mean that every asshole with a SPOT transceiver can put my life in jeopardy by being stupid with his life choices.

 

My point is that clearly the weather wasn't that bad if SAR teams were able to get to him. Furthermore, the weather wasn't that bad at all if the SAR teams were allowed to go to him. You would be surprised how hamstrung most SAR teams are when dealing with "bad weather."

 

This is the only thing I am trying to point out...

[ivan]

i'll always be fine w/ the sar-boys saying no-fucking-way-boy-o - that said, on the volcanoes, the weather's usually much better near the base, so it's pretty easy to at least set out from the parking lot before pulling the plug...

[akhalteke]

i'll always be fine w/ the sar-boys saying no-fucking-way-boy-o - that said, on the volcanoes, the weather's usually much better near the base, so it's pretty easy to at least set out from the parking lot before pulling the plug...

 

The thing is, it almost always is the SAR boys that want to go no matter what. It is usually the Incident Commander that pulls the plug because there is a 10% change of snow above 10,000 ft.

[ivan]

not my pay grade...

 

still, were it, it seems like the aforementioned pressures of not getting good boys blasted for buffons would be pressing?

[rob]

I was into SAR and mountain rescue stuff briefly. I think every single mission I was on, the guy was doing something stupid. If you think about it, it makes sense. Sort of a self-selecting sample size, right?

 

SAR guys love doing that shit. But still, ANYTIME a SAR/Mountain Rescue guy comes after you, he's potentially risking everything for you, and I'm not sure I buy that only SOME accidents are "qualifying" and "worth it" or whatever. SAR guys will make sure that they don't take undo risks (and as you point out, actually these guys do not do wild and crazy stuff generally, even if it means waiting a day), but at the end of the day if any of them die, the subject is to blame. Period. Regardless of how he got into trouble, or whether he was prepared or not, or whatever.

 

That said, in the long run rescue services are an acceptable risk of life, aren't they? SAR guys do good work and rarely get injured -- just pulling numbers out of my ass, imagine that one rescuer is killed for every 20 lives saved...well, that's worth it, right?

 

tl;dnr

I don't think we should stop sending rescue to people for doing dumb shit, because they're the large majority of ones who need rescuing.

 

Also, I think you're underestimating the risks this guy was in once he got turned around. And getting an exact location from a subject's cell phone is not as simple as you make it sound, I was on one mission where we were actually talking to the guy trying to find him.

 

Anyway, Happy End-Of-Prohibition day!

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Oh and Tvash... Didn't you imply that you were some Navy Seal or some kind of other "professional killer? Hypocrite or a liar, take your pick you pathetic bitch.

 

Nope. That was entirely your tuggy toy. You really ran with it, too - and still are, apparently.

 

Weird fixation, frankly, but not my problem.

 

Never had much of a taste for killing (or wishing death for members of the climbing community, for that matter). Rats are as far as I go, and I feel bad about that.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled (Near) Tragedy on Hood Thread.

Edited December 6, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

It's important to remember that SAR folks are trained to put their own safety above those of they rescue, for obvious reasons. SAR's responsible for making that go/no go call, not the victim.

 

Most rescues are for the inexperienced, and few (3%) involve climbers at all. A lot involve kids who get themselves treed. I have a little problem throwing kids under the bus before they've had a chance to make some really big mistakes.

 

All of us start out as noobs. It's probably helpful to remember that period from time to time before joining the inevitable conga line of stay puff swagger every time SAR gets a call.

Edited December 6, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

We could mark this day on the calendar for next year and carry on with a mellow conversation at the first annual pub-smoke, with munchies of course.

[akhalteke]

I was into SAR and mountain rescue stuff briefly. I think every single mission I was on, the guy was doing something stupid. If you think about it, it makes sense. Sort of a self-selecting sample size, right?

 

SAR guys love doing that shit. But still, ANYTIME a SAR/Mountain Rescue guy comes after you, he's potentially risking everything for you, and I'm not sure I buy that only SOME accidents are "qualifying" and "worth it" or whatever. SAR guys will make sure that they don't take undo risks (and as you point out, actually these guys do not do wild and crazy stuff generally, even if it means waiting a day), but at the end of the day if any of them die, the subject is to blame. Period. Regardless of how he got into trouble, or whether he was prepared or not, or whatever.

 

That said, in the long run rescue services are an acceptable risk of life, aren't they? SAR guys do good work and rarely get injured -- just pulling numbers out of my ass, imagine that one rescuer is killed for every 20 lives saved...well, that's worth it, right?

 

tl;dnr

I don't think we should stop sending rescue to people for doing dumb shit, because they're the large majority of ones who need rescuing.

 

Also, I think you're underestimating the risks this guy was in once he got turned around. And getting an exact location from a subject's cell phone is not as simple as you make it sound, I was on one mission where we were actually talking to the guy trying to find him.

 

Anyway, Happy End-Of-Prohibition day!

 

 

If you "save" 1 in 20, yes that "sounds good" but how many of those people really need saving if they are unable to orient themselves in the same weather that you are sending rescuers up in?