tvashtarkatena Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I hope these marines get transfered to Marine 1 next. The Dirka Dirkas cut off guy's heads and hang our dead soldiers from bridges and we are supposed to be mad about a little piss? War isn't PC and Afganistan is a long way from Namby Pamby land. People are finally finding out that war is really kinda shitty. Welcome to the real world. I wish they had stuffed their mouths with bacon first. Go Marines! Kids these days! Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I think we should one-up The Terrorists . Cut there heads off AND pee in their mouths. On camera, of course. Quote
sobo Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Gotta love court-marshals...Proper grammar and spelling would be courts-martial. Just sayin'... Gawd, you're bored. Yes, yes I am... Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 My thought is that TTK is more like the used-car salesman played by Bill Paxton in True Lies. quite possibly his best role (either that or chet from wierd science) Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I hope these marines get transfered to Marine 1 next. The Dirka Dirkas cut off guy's heads and hang our dead soldiers from bridges and we are supposed to be mad about a little piss? War isn't PC and Afganistan is a long way from Namby Pamby land. People are finally finding out that war is really kinda shitty. Welcome to the real world. I wish they had stuffed their mouths with bacon first. Go Marines! a fine illustration of clemenceau's observation that "war is too serious a matter to leave to soldiers." Quote
slab_master Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I hope these marines get transfered to Marine 1 next. The Dirka Dirkas cut off guy's heads and hang our dead soldiers from bridges and we are supposed to be mad about a little piss? War isn't PC and Afganistan is a long way from Namby Pamby land. People are finally finding out that war is really kinda shitty. Welcome to the real world. I wish they had stuffed their mouths with bacon first. Go Marines! a fine illustration of clemenceau's observation that "war is too serious a matter to leave to soldiers." yes yes, we should leave it to presidents and other such leaders instead. Quote
JayB Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 what seems lost here is that this video is fucking peanuts compared to many other pearls of the past decade - jesus christ, the kids up at ft lewis just pled or were found guilty of doing far, far more sinister shit than pissing on some dead dudes who very likely deserved their untimely demise. For what its worth the main solider involved in those incidents is at the brig I work at. Honestly if I didnt know the story or his charges I wouldnt have guessed he could do anything like that. Think it just goes to show you what war can bring out in a person. This is all arm-chair analysis from my end, but I have to wonder how the average person posting from the comfort of their chaise-lounges would hold-up after months and months of foot patrols in Afghanistan while folks as ruthless, barbaric, and merciless as the Taliban try to kill them every day. The times I've really been afraid for my life have been the results of my own misjudgments and the only thing doing me in was the serene indifference of natural law, but even that felt personal at the time. Thankfully I've never had anyone out to kill me, but even feeling persistently threatened by someone in ways that seem credible can bring out some fairly primitive feelings mighty fast. I'd like to think that I'd behave as honorably as the hundreds of thousands of troops who have rotated through the Iraq and Afghanistan and behaved with restraint and scruples when fighting an enemy with neither. I'm glad that we're part of a civilization that expects the corpses of even the most loathesome adversaries to be treated with a certain amount of dignity, and I don't expect people not to criticize people who violate that expectation, but I do wish that people who haven't had to walk the walk would incorporate a bit of self-reflection and humility into their outrage. I suppose it reminds me of the folks who criticize the failings of various people involved in high-altitude tragedies, who have never personally been exhausted, hypoxic, borderlined hypothermic and terrified while nature unloads on them with all barrells. I think the fact that we expect everyone to uphold the highest values in the most dire circumstances is a good thing, but I can't help but get mildly annoyed when folks who have never been in the mountains, much less in dire straits let fly without injecting at least a mild dose of humility or honest self reflection into the mix when they're evaluating the guy who couldn't summon the will to head back into the storm, etc. Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 a fine illustration of clemenceau's observation that "war is too serious a matter to leave to soldiers." yes yes, we should leave it to presidents and other such leaders instead. ha! you might also point out that taking a frenchman's advice on how to make war is like taking a catholic priest's advice on how to babysit little boys. Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 agreed there, jay, and why i said this on page 1 i'm certainly no holier than these guys - i wouldn't be suprised at all if, in some parallel dimension, i was doing the same things as these dudes - the serene placidness i enjoy daily is undoubtedly the result of a conscious daily routine of long naps and tall glasses of burgundy, both of which seem in short supply in the typical war-zone... Quote
slab_master Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 a fine illustration of clemenceau's observation that "war is too serious a matter to leave to soldiers." yes yes, we should leave it to presidents and other such leaders instead. ha! you might also point out that taking a frenchman's advice on how to make war is like taking a catholic priest's advice on how to babysit little boys. point being: barbaric acts (declarations of war) cloaked in the finery of nationalistic jingoism are utterly more reprehensible than the naked aggression released by soldiers in the service of said wars. One makes the other possible. Quote
slab_master Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I can't help but get mildly annoyed when folks who have never been in the mountains, much less in dire straits let fly without injecting at least a mild dose of humility or honest self reflection into the mix when they're evaluating the guy who couldn't summon the will to head back into the storm, etc. i guess both the mountaineer and the soldier ARE both in a given situation by choice, right? in service for their country heh. (ah the archaic language of heroism: amusing if it weren't so dangerously appealing to humanoids.) Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (ah the archaic language of heroism: amusing if it weren't so dangerously appealing to humanoids.) i'm tired of all this back-slapping "ain't humanity neat" bullshit - we're a virus w/ shoes!" Quote
slab_master Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) i'm tired of all this back-slapping "ain't humanity neat" bullshit - we're a virus w/ shoes!" heh, a funny cynical bastard to be sure, although a little overly mired in his own cynicism for my tastes Edited January 13, 2012 by slab_master Quote
JosephH Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 ...but I do wish that people who haven't had to walk the walk would incorporate a bit of self-reflection and humility into their outrage. Be sure and explain that to the nervous Marines who are just arrived or deploying for a tour in the Helmand Province which, by the way, was actually calming down before these crackers got all GoPro. The only thing we know for sure is it won't be them dying because of their video. Quote
JayB Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I hope these marines get transfered to Marine 1 next. The Dirka Dirkas cut off guy's heads and hang our dead soldiers from bridges and we are supposed to be mad about a little piss? War isn't PC and Afganistan is a long way from Namby Pamby land. People are finally finding out that war is really kinda shitty. Welcome to the real world. I wish they had stuffed their mouths with bacon first. Go Marines! a fine illustration of clemenceau's observation that "war is too serious a matter to leave to soldiers." Hume put it best when he said "The rules of our morals aren't the conclusions of our reason," but I have to admit that I find it somewhat curious that it's generally regarded as okay to kill folks like the Taliban with whatever ballistic weaponry we can conjure up but peeing on them after the fact is a seen as graver sin against the rules of civilized conduct. I'm glad we come from a civilization that expects people to abide by the best standards of conduct even when fighting enemies who lack these scruples, but I can't help but notice how far apart the conclusions of reason and the rules of our morals are on this one. Ditto for waterboarding vs execution by drone. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 There have been atrocities conducted in every war that mankind has engaged in, including every US conflict. In the modern era we just have instant access to the gory details. The assertion expressed above by someone that suddenly people will now be opposed to war(s) because of this is a dubious one. We'll get used to the abuses we see on YouTube and just tune them out. Jay's last post is spot on in his commentary as well. Quote
sobo Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 My thought is that TTK is more like the used-car salesman played by Bill Paxton in True Lies. quite possibly his best role (either that or chet from wierd science) What about Pvt. Hudson from Aliens? That role was priceless! Quote
j_b Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 This is all arm-chair analysis from my end, but I have to wonder how the average person posting from the comfort of their chaise-lounges would hold-up after months and months of foot patrols in Afghanistan while folks as ruthless, barbaric, and merciless as the Taliban try to kill them every day. The times I've really been afraid for my life have been the results of my own misjudgments and the only thing doing me in was the serene indifference of natural law, but even that felt personal at the time. Thankfully I've never had anyone out to kill me, but even feeling persistently threatened by someone in ways that seem credible can bring out some fairly primitive feelings mighty fast. What dross! Countless studies have shown that through ww2 ~80% of soldiers refused to kill the enemy. Only after thoroughly dehumanizing desensitization training programs were introduced has this ratio changed. manufacturing contempt Quote
slab_master Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 This is all arm-chair analysis from my end, but I have to wonder how the average person posting from the comfort of their chaise-lounges would hold-up after months and months of foot patrols in Afghanistan while folks as ruthless, barbaric, and merciless as the Taliban try to kill them every day. The times I've really been afraid for my life have been the results of my own misjudgments and the only thing doing me in was the serene indifference of natural law, but even that felt personal at the time. Thankfully I've never had anyone out to kill me, but even feeling persistently threatened by someone in ways that seem credible can bring out some fairly primitive feelings mighty fast. What dross! Countless studies have shown that through ww2 ~80% of soldiers refused to kill the enemy. Only after thoroughly dehumanizing desensitization training programs were introduced has this ratio changed. manufacturing contempt sure, many might think his posts dross, but i hardly think this particular one necessarily contradicts your (appreciated) link. Quote
j_b Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Presenting the choices faced by modern soldiers in a vaccuum, as if they weren't fully conditioned by their training to do the unthinkable, is disingenuous dross. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 "GreaterGood" at "Berkeley" Quote
dougd Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 A combat vet's perspective. He felt compelled to write it and I found it interesting. http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-video-marines-urinating-taliban-corpses-veterans-view-055500933.html I'm not naive enough to believe wars will be eliminated (it'd be nice), but if we could just eliminate the unnecessary ones I'd be a lot happier camper... d Quote
JayB Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 ...but I do wish that people who haven't had to walk the walk would incorporate a bit of self-reflection and humility into their outrage. Be sure and explain that to the nervous Marines who are just arrived or deploying for a tour in the Helmand Province which, by the way, was actually calming down before these crackers got all GoPro. The only thing we know for sure is it won't be them dying because of their video. I think it was the romans that said "Offenses against the Gods are the business of the Gods." The Marines you speak of have every right to be outraged on their own behalf anytime one of their own - or someone ten thousand miles away - makes choices that needlessly increase the risk to them. If they've nominated you to be outraged on their behalf for the risks that they, and not you, will have to endure as a consequence of their fellow marines' action then let me know. Otherwise feel free to criticise what I've said for your own reasons, but spare me the presumption that you're entitled to criticise something I've written on their behalf. Quote
ivan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Presenting the choices faced by modern soldiers in a vaccuum, as if they weren't fully conditioned by their training to do the unthinkable, is disingenuous dross. hmm - gotta think that somelke 85% of the teenage guys i teach are playing "call of duty" and fantasizing about zombie-apocalypses and not too far away from pissing on their own first kill... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.