First set of Cams?

[Laughingman]

Hi am in the process of putting climbing rack together. I've looking to buy 3 or 4 cams to start off (already got passive stuff covered). I am wondering what peoples opinion of the new Wired Bliss cams are? Also how do they compare to the Metlious Powercams or DMM CU4. Also I am wondering what sizes would be handy to start out with.I am looking for input before making this investment so any advice is appreciated.

 

Note: C4 cams don't "feel" great in my hands. Also the fact they are made in china creeps me out. If anybody can convince me otherwise I am willing to listen.

 

[Sol]

C4's are the gold standard. The best range at the best weight. Start by buying yourself a .5, .75, 1, and 2.

 

Wired Bliss are heavier with less range.

[Lodestone]

If I were starting from scratch, I'd strongly consider the new Wild Country Helium cams. I have a set of and most frequently use C4's and am quite happy with them.

 

From the sound of it, you prefer U-stem cams. Powercams are top notch and have a long history of happy users. I used the new Wired Bliss cams once and didn't notice that they weren't Metolius until Bill pointed it out to me.

 

Have you read this comparison?: http://cascadeclimbers.com/blog/2010/10/12/small-cams-review-by-bill-coe/

 

 

 

Chad

[Laughingman]

Have you read this comparison?

 

Indeed I have read the comparison however the review did not talk about the quadcams.

 

[genepires]

stuff can be made in china and be of quality if the company requires it and pays for it. But most of the companies don't want to pay, hence the crappiness of many things from china. I believe that BD is requiring and paying for quality.

 

I would choose a set of cams that is very common around where you climb. Chances are you will be combining your rack with your partners so for the sake of familiarity with cams, choose whatever your partner has. Unless it is some strange chek brand. BD and metolious are common.

[Laughingman]

"I would choose a set of cams that is very common around where you climb."

 

I came from a "classical mountaineering" background (NOLS and so on) so I mostly climbed classical alpine routes, however I am getting to the point in which having a few cams will be handy. Thus I am looking for "common sizes" for general alpine routes in the cascades.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Laughingman

[rocky_joe]

Metolius Mastercams up to 4(red), BD C4 .75(green) and up. my $.02.

[genepires]

ditto what rocky joe says.

 

My comments were based on the highly probable fact that you will eventually start cragging more than mountaineering.

 

for easy technical alpine routes, the really small cams might be excess. granted they are very light excess weight. I usually bring along a set of #1 to #6 tcu/fcu and a #2 camalot. maybe a #3 camalot if needed. The core of my alpine rack is the nuts, tricams and hexes though.

 

There has been quite a few used cams available on the yard sale lately.

[Autoxfil]

Metolius Mastercams up to 4(red), BD C4 .75(green) and up. my $.02.

 

Yup. Master cams 1-4, C4s .75-3.

[Laughingman]

ditto what rocky joe says.

 

My comments were based on the highly probable fact that you will eventually start cragging more than mountaineering.

 

for easy technical alpine routes, the really small cams might be excess. granted they are very light excess weight. I usually bring along a set of #1 to #6 tcu/fcu and a #2 camalot. maybe a #3 camalot if needed. The core of my alpine rack is the nuts, tricams and hexes though.

 

 

Yeah I've rolled mostly with nuts in the past (most of the routes I did tended to require very little protection anyways). Also are the bigger Tcu cams "less" likely to walk then smaller 4 cam versions?

 

 

[Sol]

For small cams I say ditch the Master cams and ideally go with a set of each: tcu's-gray to orange, new aliens (fixefader or totem) blue to red.

 

Master Cams blow.

[rocky_joe]

why do you think master cams blow? I haven't used enough other things to know how/if they're worse.

 

[Laughingman]

For small cams I say ditch the Master cams and ideally go with a set of each: tcu's-gray to orange, new aliens (fixefader or totem) blue to red.

 

 

 

As much as been talked about in terms of small cams (like the Tcu) but is there a problem with medium sized U stem cams? I was thinking of buying powercams 3,4,5 and possibly six.

 

Also has anyone actually used the new helium cams?

 

Edited November 13, 2011 by Laughingman

[JosephH]

For small cams I say ditch the Master cams and ideally go with a set of each: tcu's-gray to orange, new aliens (fixefader or totem) blue to red.

 

Master Cams blow.

Clueless...

[Sol]

Joseph is right i'm clueless. I'll let him answer for me (he has all the answers, just check out the Oregon forum).

[JosephH]

I suppose you could take Sol's word for it, or maybe trust a guy who leads every pitch of the Nose in under 16 hours...

 

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1004339/The-Nose-In-A-Day-by-Mark-Hudon

[Sol]

I'd be interested in seeing someone leading 5.12+ - 5.13 on them. All my friends that lead hard trad grades have given up on trying to make them work. Leading the nose in a day just doesn't compare to placing solid gear in hard placements from marginal stances.

 

Again I'll leave it up to JH to provide all the answers. I dont post on here to be called clueless by a man who's never met me. I post on here to provide psyche, info, and motivation. Done.

 

 

[JosephH]

I'd be interested in seeing someone leading 5.12+ - 5.13 on them.

How about a fair percentage of the guys who make them...

[genepires]

I'd be interested in seeing someone leading 5.12+ - 5.13 on them. All my friends that lead hard trad grades have given up on trying to make them work.

 

I post on here to provide psyche, info, and motivation.

 

 

Don't feed the JH with the negative energy. It makes his head bigger.

 

I am curious about your opinion though. Is it that it has 4 cams instead of 3 that makes it harder to place? head width? Or is there some other aspect?

[jfs1978]

Jeez...on our way (as usual) to once again proving Godwin's Law over an increasingly stupid debate over which cams are better than which cams.

 

 

boring, tiresome, pointless, idiotic, childish...seriously.

 

fwiw...I mostly use a combo of Met. TCUs, C3s, or Master Cams (and occasional Aliens) in the grey to yellow (Metolius) sizes. I like them all...sometimes I like one more than the other. Sometimes it doesn't matter. ymmv.

 

For a first set...pick one...and they'll be fine. Later on you'll try something else and will either like it more ... or less. But they're still fine.

[bearbreeder]

buy the ones which feel best when you use em ... climb with as many different cams as possible before you buy ...

 

people on the intrawebs tend to be more interested in telling you to do what they want you to do ... then having you decide for your self

 

that said, i use C4s, dragons, zeros, tcus,link cams ... and have used master cams, DMM 4CU, friends, aliens, etc ...

 

if i had to buy new stuff from scratch ... id probably get the dragons for the normal sizes and the mastercams for the smaller ones

 

 

[max]

Notice a lot of people above have given the nod to Metolious TCU's. Says something there.

 

 

Can't speak to the new design (haven't bought any new cams in ten years or so), but I always am using the blue, yellow, orange, and red tcu's (most of these are a 3-cam size.... )

 

My thoughts are the 3-cam sizes fit more places, better, than the 4-cam units.

 

Placements per weight ratio for TCU-type cams much higher than larger cams.

 

I prefer the u-cable setup on cams over the single stem... better dexterity while I'm making placements. I don't like the two finger triggers compared to the single, loop trigger on tcu's.

 

My thoughts...

[Tyson.g]

Max is on target.

[RafalA]

I use Metolius MasterCams grey to yellow, BD C4's above that. They all seems bomber to me. I have more issues with the rock (Rockies limestone) than with my cams.

[Wallstein]

I'm with Sol as far as the Master Cams go. I've tried them and got frustrated with them as well as had difficulties cleaning them.

 

I rocked Aliens back in the day when they didn't break, though they'd wear out way to fast for me. Three years of heavy use and the lobes were cooked. Hard to beat if you are into techno aid on El Cap. Though I've probably climbed El Cap 5 times without any Aliens now.

 

Now a days I use a set of TCU's and a set of C3's. The C3's definitely take some getting use to as they are a slightly different size than the Aliens/TCU's . And so far I've had great luck with the durability of them. They do ice up fairly easy though.

 

If I had to live with a single set the rest of my life it would be TCU's. They last a long time, they are easy to clean, don't freeze up that easy, and made by a solid company.

 

And if opinions are weighted by how fast you can climb the nose leading every pitch I've got Hudon beat by 9 hours. But Mark is still one of my idols.