Tax the rich

[KaskadskyjKozak]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/millionaires-the-middle-class-and-taxes-actual-numbers

 

Fix AMT, should be pretty simple.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

j_b is so full of shit, it oozes from his ears

 

 

here comes douchebag who'll soon be "whining" about having been insulted or so other bullshit. Pathetic moron.

 

If you're having trouble affording the co-pay on your meds, I'd be more than happy to help you out.

 

[ivan]

 

2. Not sure if that's their intention - quite often I suspect that it's the opposite - but that seems to be the way things work out in practice.

 

bear in mind that, per colonel kurtz's instructions, i really try not to judge - i've no need to demonize the wealthy, whoever the masters of semantics ultimately decide that defines - rich, poor, in the middle, so long as the relationship remains a symbiotic one there's not much to argue over more than nuts n' bolts - in the end it's hard not to go w/ your gut though, and it doesn't strike me as class warfare on the well-to-do's to wanna squeeze them a trifle at the present time

[glassgowkiss]

this thread smells like balls

 

That's j_b

no, your mom

[glassgowkiss]

"Taken as a whole, the US tax system is probably somewhat progressive — but not as much as you might think, especially at the upper end, and very erratically. There are a lot of rich people basically free-riding on the system."

Now this doesn't even go into much, much bigger problem of tax loop holes for a lot of large corporations.

[JayB]

It'd be interesting to see what would happen to the state/muni bond market if the dividends that they paid were no longer exempt from most taxes, and what affect that would have on state and local budgets, etc, etc, etc. The tax exemptions for state and local bonds constitute a significant subsidy from the federal government to state and local governments, since the massive stream of dividends they generate aren't subject to federal income taxes. Add in the fact that they'd have to start competing with commercial bonds for buyers on their straight coupon yield instead of their after-tax yield and I'm guessing yields would go up at least a full percent over what they'd be otherwise, if not more.

 

I'm for eliminating all tax exemptions in exchange for lower marginal rates for a bunch of reasons, but it's not entirely clear to me that all of the changes that result from the elimination of this and other tax loopholes that the wealthy use to lower their tax bill would generate changes that progressive folks would be entirely happy with.

[glassgowkiss]

JayB, when 50% of the Congress makes over 1 million per year, while the median income in the US is about 50K, it would not be a stretch to say we are lacking proper representation in the legislative branch. Judging by how quickly mighty soviet empire fell, I think the social, political and economic day of reckoning is much nearer then you think. People who start lacking tend to become desperate.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

I'm for eliminating all tax exemptions in exchange for lower marginal rates for a bunch of reasons, but it's not entirely clear to me that all of the changes that result from the elimination of this and other tax loopholes that the wealthy use to lower their tax bill would generate changes that progressive folks would be entirely happy with.

 

I'll say it again. Fix the AMT. If someone makes $1million in whatever combination of salary, capital gains, etc, just set a lower limit to what they must pay - whether that is an absolute value of 12%, 15%, or whatever.

 

 

[j_b]

[video:youtube]v=myLHPvd8wyM

 

https://occupywallst.org/

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

You should head over there and join Murray Poop Chin in making of his historic documentary. Oh, yes, you'd need to leave your Mom's basement for that...

 

 

[j_b]

[video:youtube]v=PJBVXhpzdaI

[112]

Thanks for the links j_b!!!!

 

[video:youtube]

[Crux]

http://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt

 

http://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallStNYC

[prole]

WHERE'S THE TEA PARTY!!!

[glassgowkiss]

WHERE'S THE TEA PARTY!!!

They are busy getting it up the ass from the very same people they support. While busy with gay bashing and wrapped up in American flag, "defending" the country from non-existent enemy, they are getting their ass rimmed in form of pay cuts and wall street bailouts.

[prole]

According to recent polls, many of them are probably at the Old Country Buffet or Applebee's.

[glassgowkiss]

According to recent polls, many of them are probably at the Old Country Buffet or Applebee's.

yes, hope getting fat, so they die sooner then later from obesity related illnesses.

[j_b]

[video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60

[pink]

[video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60

 

 

[JosephH]

Distortions to the tax code were important, but don't overlook the significance of interest rate distortions. Interest rates are an extremely important factor in determining what kind of things people invest in.

Interest rate distortions...hmmm. As opposed to, say, systemic fraud in the loan-securitization market as we sliced, diced and obscured our way through the four principle forms of consumer debt in an orgy conducted of originators, SPV's, trusts, rating agencies, insurers, etc. And let's not lay any blame on derivatives-gone-wild.

 

Did interest rates play an supporting role? Sure, but top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board was doing the driving from where I sit. And curious how now, on the way down, the foreclosure system has turned into a cesspool of fraud riddled with the exact same criminals who were originating loans on the way up.

 

There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them...

[112]

I posted Working Class Hero last night and then deleted my post as I felt it was a little self-righteous of me to post it, but in light of Pink's comment, FUCK IT!

 

[video:youtube]

 

Here is a link for you Pink (NSFW): How can you not like this???

[kevbone]

[video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60

 

Truth at its best.

[glassgowkiss]

top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board

There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them...

I am glad, I am not the only one with such opinion. The funny thing is how many people who supported deregulation were dry-tooled in the process (I mean not even spit for extra friction) and still keep repeating the same old drivel. Just the same unproven drivel, that lower taxes create jobs. No they don't- they destroy jobs.

[JayB]

Distortions to the tax code were important, but don't overlook the significance of interest rate distortions. Interest rates are an extremely important factor in determining what kind of things people invest in.

Interest rate distortions...hmmm. As opposed to, say, systemic fraud in the loan-securitization market as we sliced, diced and obscured our way through the four principle forms of consumer debt in an orgy conducted of originators, SPV's, trusts, rating agencies, insurers, etc. And let's not lay any blame on derivatives-gone-wild.

 

Did interest rates play an supporting role? Sure, but top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board was doing the driving from where I sit. And curious how now, on the way down, the foreclosure system has turned into a cesspool of fraud riddled with the exact same criminals who were originating loans on the way up.

 

There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them...

 

There are lots of variables to consider, and its certainly worth considering the role of each. I presume that you are aware of the connection between the price of a given debt-financed asset, and the cost of borrowing the money to purchase the said asset. When interest rates go down, the price of the asset typically goes up in a manner that's proportionate to the interest rate reduction.

 

Take that away in the early 2000's you've still got greed, you've still got the same regulatory framework, you've still got all of the other ingredients but it's not clear that you've got the massive asset price inflation in the property market that drove the price of homes up many times faster than the rate of income growth would support. If you take a look at loan origination volumes by year, it's clear that subprime lending only started to kick into high gear after prices had become so high that very few people could qualify under the traditional loan programs.

 

Combine a public in the grips of a speculative mania around housing and desperate for credit with a vast universe of very large investors desperate for yield in a low-rate environment, and many of the factors that you've cited and we're off to the races. How effective would any of the above (greed, etc) have been in an environment where mortgage lending and borrowing decisions were constrained by the supply of real, loanable funds (e.g. money people had set aside by deferring consumption) and real income growth?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JayB]

top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board

There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them...

I am glad, I am not the only one with such opinion. The funny thing is how many people who supported deregulation were dry-tooled in the process (I mean not even spit for extra friction) and still keep repeating the same old drivel. Just the same unproven drivel, that lower taxes create jobs. No they don't- they destroy jobs.

 

1. How are jobs created and maintained, in your opinion?

 

2. How does lowering taxes destroy them in your opinion?