KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/millionaires-the-middle-class-and-taxes-actual-numbers Fix AMT, should be pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 j_b is so full of shit, it oozes from his ears here comes douchebag who'll soon be "whining" about having been insulted or so other bullshit. Pathetic moron. If you're having trouble affording the co-pay on your meds, I'd be more than happy to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 2. Not sure if that's their intention - quite often I suspect that it's the opposite - but that seems to be the way things work out in practice. bear in mind that, per colonel kurtz's instructions, i really try not to judge - i've no need to demonize the wealthy, whoever the masters of semantics ultimately decide that defines - rich, poor, in the middle, so long as the relationship remains a symbiotic one there's not much to argue over more than nuts n' bolts - in the end it's hard not to go w/ your gut though, and it doesn't strike me as class warfare on the well-to-do's to wanna squeeze them a trifle at the present time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 this thread smells like balls That's j_b no, your mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 "Taken as a whole, the US tax system is probably somewhat progressive — but not as much as you might think, especially at the upper end, and very erratically. There are a lot of rich people basically free-riding on the system." Now this doesn't even go into much, much bigger problem of tax loop holes for a lot of large corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It'd be interesting to see what would happen to the state/muni bond market if the dividends that they paid were no longer exempt from most taxes, and what affect that would have on state and local budgets, etc, etc, etc. The tax exemptions for state and local bonds constitute a significant subsidy from the federal government to state and local governments, since the massive stream of dividends they generate aren't subject to federal income taxes. Add in the fact that they'd have to start competing with commercial bonds for buyers on their straight coupon yield instead of their after-tax yield and I'm guessing yields would go up at least a full percent over what they'd be otherwise, if not more. I'm for eliminating all tax exemptions in exchange for lower marginal rates for a bunch of reasons, but it's not entirely clear to me that all of the changes that result from the elimination of this and other tax loopholes that the wealthy use to lower their tax bill would generate changes that progressive folks would be entirely happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 JayB, when 50% of the Congress makes over 1 million per year, while the median income in the US is about 50K, it would not be a stretch to say we are lacking proper representation in the legislative branch. Judging by how quickly mighty soviet empire fell, I think the social, political and economic day of reckoning is much nearer then you think. People who start lacking tend to become desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm for eliminating all tax exemptions in exchange for lower marginal rates for a bunch of reasons, but it's not entirely clear to me that all of the changes that result from the elimination of this and other tax loopholes that the wealthy use to lower their tax bill would generate changes that progressive folks would be entirely happy with. I'll say it again. Fix the AMT. If someone makes $1million in whatever combination of salary, capital gains, etc, just set a lower limit to what they must pay - whether that is an absolute value of 12%, 15%, or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 [video:youtube]v=myLHPvd8wyM https://occupywallst.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You should head over there and join Murray Poop Chin in making of his historic documentary. Oh, yes, you'd need to leave your Mom's basement for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 [video:youtube]v=PJBVXhpzdaI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thanks for the links j_b!!!! [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 http://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallStNYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 WHERE'S THE TEA PARTY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 WHERE'S THE TEA PARTY!!! They are busy getting it up the ass from the very same people they support. While busy with gay bashing and wrapped up in American flag, "defending" the country from non-existent enemy, they are getting their ass rimmed in form of pay cuts and wall street bailouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 According to recent polls, many of them are probably at the Old Country Buffet or Applebee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 According to recent polls, many of them are probably at the Old Country Buffet or Applebee's. yes, hope getting fat, so they die sooner then later from obesity related illnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 [video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 [video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Distortions to the tax code were important, but don't overlook the significance of interest rate distortions. Interest rates are an extremely important factor in determining what kind of things people invest in. Interest rate distortions...hmmm. As opposed to, say, systemic fraud in the loan-securitization market as we sliced, diced and obscured our way through the four principle forms of consumer debt in an orgy conducted of originators, SPV's, trusts, rating agencies, insurers, etc. And let's not lay any blame on derivatives-gone-wild. Did interest rates play an supporting role? Sure, but top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board was doing the driving from where I sit. And curious how now, on the way down, the foreclosure system has turned into a cesspool of fraud riddled with the exact same criminals who were originating loans on the way up. There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I posted Working Class Hero last night and then deleted my post as I felt it was a little self-righteous of me to post it, but in light of Pink's comment, FUCK IT! [video:youtube] Here is a link for you Pink (NSFW): How can you not like this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 [video:youtube]v=rf7vgmMWi60 Truth at its best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them... I am glad, I am not the only one with such opinion. The funny thing is how many people who supported deregulation were dry-tooled in the process (I mean not even spit for extra friction) and still keep repeating the same old drivel. Just the same unproven drivel, that lower taxes create jobs. No they don't- they destroy jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Distortions to the tax code were important, but don't overlook the significance of interest rate distortions. Interest rates are an extremely important factor in determining what kind of things people invest in. Interest rate distortions...hmmm. As opposed to, say, systemic fraud in the loan-securitization market as we sliced, diced and obscured our way through the four principle forms of consumer debt in an orgy conducted of originators, SPV's, trusts, rating agencies, insurers, etc. And let's not lay any blame on derivatives-gone-wild. Did interest rates play an supporting role? Sure, but top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board was doing the driving from where I sit. And curious how now, on the way down, the foreclosure system has turned into a cesspool of fraud riddled with the exact same criminals who were originating loans on the way up. There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them... There are lots of variables to consider, and its certainly worth considering the role of each. I presume that you are aware of the connection between the price of a given debt-financed asset, and the cost of borrowing the money to purchase the said asset. When interest rates go down, the price of the asset typically goes up in a manner that's proportionate to the interest rate reduction. Take that away in the early 2000's you've still got greed, you've still got the same regulatory framework, you've still got all of the other ingredients but it's not clear that you've got the massive asset price inflation in the property market that drove the price of homes up many times faster than the rate of income growth would support. If you take a look at loan origination volumes by year, it's clear that subprime lending only started to kick into high gear after prices had become so high that very few people could qualify under the traditional loan programs. Combine a public in the grips of a speculative mania around housing and desperate for credit with a vast universe of very large investors desperate for yield in a low-rate environment, and many of the factors that you've cited and we're off to the races. How effective would any of the above (greed, etc) have been in an environment where mortgage lending and borrowing decisions were constrained by the supply of real, loanable funds (e.g. money people had set aside by deferring consumption) and real income growth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 top-to-bottom fraud and greed across the board There were a lot of distortions alright, but interest rates may have been the least of them... I am glad, I am not the only one with such opinion. The funny thing is how many people who supported deregulation were dry-tooled in the process (I mean not even spit for extra friction) and still keep repeating the same old drivel. Just the same unproven drivel, that lower taxes create jobs. No they don't- they destroy jobs. 1. How are jobs created and maintained, in your opinion? 2. How does lowering taxes destroy them in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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