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Peter_Puget

Investment Fail III

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The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job.
Linky

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Of course this is assuming that all the money went purely to salaries, which it did not. Most of the money went to costs like consumables, which of course has a trickle down effect.

 

Gotta love Republican math.

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The report comes from the Whitehouse. The cost of the program is the cost of the program. The total estimated jobs saved/created are the result of the program in its entirety.

 

By "trickle down" I assume you mean impact of "multipliers."

 

Link to report (also given in link shown above): link to report

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It's funny how your article says just under 2.4 million jobs when the actual report says this...

 

As of the first quarter of 2011, the report estimates that the Recovery Act raised employment by 2.4 to 3.6 million jobs relative to what it otherwise would have been.

 

You are implying that the money was needlessly wasted by saying that each job was created at the cost of $278k. If the money was to be spent purely on salaries, what do you propose these people should be doing that doesn't cost anything more that would have a positive impact on our economy or society? Please explain this to me.

 

My work actually received ARRA money. We had probably 100 applicants that made it through HR for 2 jobs. Most of these people were out of work and most were qualified enough to do the work.

 

I'm pretty sure the 2.4 to 3.6 million Americans that were able to keep food on their tables and have health insurance will disagree with you about the success of it.

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It's all part of selling your basic values of decency, fairness, gratitude, and stewardship for the future for a few bucks a year, Jon.

 

Welcome to the New Rugged Individualism!

 

For further education on the NRI philosophy, take a lollipop from a 4 year old, then wait 10 seconds...

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Ie, give us everything we want now or we will smear our diaper shit all over the entire world.

 

Well, I guess that's what happens when dumbshit kooks, not exactly in short supply in Merka, form their own party.

 

Edited by tvashtarkatena

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...... Congressional Budget Office (CBO), which found that the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act:

 

· Raised economic output by up to 3.5 percent.

· Decreased the nation’s unemployment rate by up to 1.9 percentage points.

· Increased the number of employed Americans by up to 3.5 million.

· Increased jobs by up to 5 million than otherwise would have been created.

 

 

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Overheard will prepping for a swim at the lake yesterday:

 

20 something blob #1: "want anything to eat?"

 

20 something blob #2: "No thanks, I'll just wait til dinner"

 

Blob #2 then preceded wash down the better part of a large bag of Sun Chips with a can of Modelo...

 

If these kids looks like whales at 25, they're gonna need their own hangars by 40.

 

I see an end to the housing slump, here. New codes will require loading docks for reefer trucks, though...

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Isn't it curious how regressives somehow find their talking points almost exclusively at Murdoch/Koch propaganda mills? More evidence of the cynicism of conservatives despite their continual wrapping themselves in the flag of liberty: FREEDUMB or DEATH!

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Isn't it curious how regressives somehow find their talking points almost exclusively at Murdoch/Koch propaganda mills? More evidence of the cynicism of conservatives despite their continual wrapping themselves in the flag of liberty: FREEDUMB or DEATH!

 

You have a black-white view of the world that only serves to make you feel self-righteous jb. It's not at all like you think it is. Normally not worth bothering posting a response so as to strike up a one sided dialog with you, but I had to go there at least one more time. You are welcome.

 

 

 

The tractor beam of oppressiveness from you is strong.

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The total estimated jobs saved/created are the result of the program in its entirety.

 

No, the result of the program in its entirety is the wealth created by those jobs, i.e., improved infrastructure. Conservatives love to compare the current age to the New Deal, as though it's some repitition of a bygone boondoggle. We still reap the benefits of the wealth created during the New Deal.

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Isn't it curious how regressives somehow find their talking points almost exclusively at Murdoch/Koch propaganda mills? More evidence of the cynicism of conservatives despite their continual wrapping themselves in the flag of liberty: FREEDUMB or DEATH!

 

You have a black-white view of the world that only serves to make you feel self-righteous jb. It's not at all like you think it is.

 

are you claiming the Weekly Standard isn't a Murdoch propaganda mill? Are you claiming the typical source of regressive talking points isn't some media or think tank funded by the usual robber barons?

 

Whenever you feel like discussing on the basis of facts be sure to let us know.

 

Normally not worth bothering posting a response so as to strike up a one sided dialog with you, but I had to go there at least one more time. You are welcome.

 

The tractor beam of oppressiveness from you is strong.

 

FREEDUMB or DEATH!

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The total estimated jobs saved/created are the result of the program in its entirety.

 

No, the result of the program in its entirety is the wealth created by those jobs, i.e., improved infrastructure. Conservatives love to compare the current age to the New Deal, as though it's some repitition of a bygone boondoggle. We still reap the benefits of the wealth created during the New Deal.

 

The true legacy of the New Deal was a cultural one. Seattle built its wonderful system of new libraries to continue it. Our national parks continue it. Our renewable energy sources continue it. It provided the cultural unity that enabled us to triumph against (foreign) fascism. The value of the New Deal is incalculable.

 

Hard core conservatives famously hate the New Deal. These ingrates are attracted to their simpleton's movement because of fear. They are against plenty, but for nothing. Intellectual curiosity, recognition of an ever changing future, and the understanding that the unfamiliar always requires does not come easy for them, so they cling to a cliche, manufactured past that is safe and, for them, is spelled out in plain English and 'common sense'.

 

They fear death, so they cling to Jesus. They fear blacks, so they cling to the War on Drugs. They fear their own sexuality, so they beat up gays, both literally and in the courtroom. Essentially, they fear being forced to follow their own path through this world, so they live a hand-me-down life. Their fear prevents them from progressing past childhood, emotionally and intellectually.

 

The root of this weighty drag on human progress has always been the same: ignorance.

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Economic fortunes come and go, this is not the first age of extreme wealth concentration in our history, and it probably won't be the last. Social progress; the opportunity of individuals to find their own path, marches on, however. The Right will ALWAYS be on the wrong side of this tide - they always have been, and they will ALWAYS lose in the end. Understanding over fear, acceptance over bigotry, creativity over mimicry and repetition. There is a deeper truth to this world that has nothing at all to do with holy statues, flags, or patriotic songs, and that truth, despite all the efforts to contain it, will continue to reveal itself.

 

 

Edited by tvashtarkatena

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Attack the messenger cause you can't attack the message? One trick pony dude? Really? Jon posits a good point above on why wasn't the 3.6 million figure used.

 

This was the weekly standard rebuttal to Jon's point and a few others as well.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/despite-white-protests-stimulus-still-cost-taxpayers-278000-job_576348.html

 

The Presidents council on Economic advisers report:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/20110318-cea-arra-report.pdf

 

The White House response to the report noted in PP link.

"Liz Ozhorn, a White House spokesman for the stimulus bill, said that the Weekly Standard report “is based on partial information and false analysis. The Recovery Act was more than a measure to create and save jobs; it was also an investment in American infrastructure, education and industries that are critical to America’s long-term success and an investment in the economic future of America’s working families. Thanks to the Recovery Act, 110 million working families received a tax cut through the Making Work Pay tax credit, over 110,000 small businesses received critical access to capital through $27 billion in small business loans and more than 75,000 projects were started nationwide to improve our infrastructure, jump-start emerging industries and spur local economic development. The nonpartisan CBO has confirmed that the Recovery Act delivered as promised, lowering the unemployment rate by as much as 2 percent, boosting GDP by as much as 4 percent and creating and saving as many as 3.6 million jobs."

 

My point all along is that underlying all of these economic issues the US needs to get out of the overseas debacles that are machines designed to flush all of our money away. http://slashdot.org/story/11/07/05/1745258 Here's a $2.7 billion dollar computer system that our operational commanders say hindered their efforts in Afganistan. It is essentially a non-operable system, and of interest is that the FBI and CIA have a very similar software package, fully operational and functional which was offered to the Army at the start of the process but they said no. They have too much money. I'll let you do that math, divide $2.7 billion dollars into a teachers salary and tell us the number.

 

A recent NPR report notes that "The amount the U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion". http://www.npr.org/2011/06/25/137414737/among-the-costs-of-war-20b-in-air-conditioning Those kinds of numbers, just like the PP numbers on the first post, should be the starting point for a discussion. If you look at the $20 billion a year figure for air conditioning, there is a lot of suspect things contained in that number. A retired brigadier general who served as chief logistician for Gen. David Petraeus in Iraq, General Anderson, is quoted: "To power an air conditioner at a remote outpost in landlocked Afghanistan, a gallon of fuel has to be shipped into Karachi, Pakistan, then driven 800 miles over 18 days to Afghanistan on roads that are sometimes little more than "improved goat trails," Anderson says. "And you've got risks that are associated with moving the fuel almost every mile of the way."

 

Anderson calculates that more than 1,000 troops have died in fuel convoys, which remain prime targets for attack. Freestanding tents equipped with air conditioners in 125-degree heat require a lot of fuel. By making those structures more efficient, Anderson says, the military could save lives and dollars." The Pentagon disputes the figures.

 

But the underlying points still remain. Doesn't it?

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Attack the messenger cause you can't attack the message? One trick pony dude? Really? Jon posits a good point above on why wasn't the 3.6 million figure used.

 

i have spent the last 2 years attacking that worthless austerity drivel. Where have you been?

 

YOU, however, have nothing to reply to the fact that regressives get their talking points from the robber barons.

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YOU, however, have nothing to reply to the fact that regressives get their talking points from the robber barons

So, as I understand it from your default fallback position of attacking the messenger (again) and ignoring the message, you are saying that the facts are not correct?

 

Here's your tax dollars at work getting federal officers killed. Google "operation Gunrunner" for the tip of the iceberg that the ATF is trying to shift the blame and sweep the facts under the rug. http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/melson-s-explosive-f-f-allegations-taxpayer-dollars-may-have-been-used But no, we can't cut any government money cause somehow "the lil children's will suffer"...right? Of course, it's those repressive shills in Seattle this time.

 

God forbid we make them operate with less $. (insert eye roll)

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