ivan Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 so it's cool that he put a bolt in the second pitch that i did 11 years ago???? yes, it is cool, if i asked you beforehand & as it was going-on what you thought w/ pictures w/ circles n' arrows on them and you didn't sound an alarm - i wanted you on this side and did what a good man would do to get you on my side, and find it wierd that suddenly i should feeel like a bad man b/c you changed your mind. Quote
ivan Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 ivan, congrats on ur new route, ur right. i'm lying about everything. i never even climbed on the north face. i hope you die with the most TR's. as mike's tr would show, it's not new no longer. did i accuse you of lying? long distance runners live for ever, so despite your wishes, i bet you 5$ off-the-hook has me beat by next year! Quote
Lucky Larry Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) :lmao: Â larry, when you doing the route-to-be-named-later? Â andrew - friday is home-made pizza in my house night so me (and tvash adn justin and a few other folks) can tell you what it tastes like, and that's garlic n' black olives! Â I don't have a death wish, yet--soon maybe; thanks for the kick in the chod. Now when and where is the pizza bro? Edited February 12, 2011 by Lucky Larry Quote
ivan Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 :lmao: Â larry, when you doing the route-to-be-named-later? Â andrew - friday is home-made pizza in my house night so me (and tvash adn justin and a few other folks) can tell you what it tastes like, and that's garlic n' black olives! Â I don't have a death wish, yet--soon maybe; thanks for the kick in the chod. Now when and where is the pizza bro? you must not understand - the group-think is this won't sharpen yer mangina i'll get a slice n' a drink w/ you this coming weekend? Quote
denalidave Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Holy Bacon Batman! I can't even keep up with the spray unless I devote 40 hours a week. I left the house pretty early today and spent wasted the rest of the night catching up (well ok, toggling while depositing checks/paying bills on the other screen). This thread should surpass the stupid cats in a few days at this rate. Â I think Larry is onto something here. Thanks Larry. Â OK, carry on. Quote
JosephH Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 joe, you seem to forget that i have actually adopted the central columns on the s side and cleaned plenty of them myself (& w/ you) AND don't bitch about the closure, making me i would think ALMOST (for you) the ideal beaconite - you sure you're not bitch'n just b/c you're bored and its february? Ivan, my apologies for not making it clear I was talking to Steve and others in this regard - you've absolutely fabulous in this way, I just wish more would show half the initiative on the South Face columns as you have the past few years. True, I was more hoping for a free renaissance rather than an aid one, but outside the disagreement on this route, you have been nothing less than stellar as far as being someone who's picked up more than his fair share of the load in that respect. Â you're being hysterical - the BRSP, should that wonderful organization ever ACTUALLY come into existence, will include people who do this route and wouldn't have problem drawing lines between the ethics of the 2 sides - do you think i wouldn't start a conversation w/ some stranger heading down the s side trail w/ a drill? The BRSP is 'Beacon Rock State Park' not the climbers. In the end the rock is 'owned' by a relatively climber-friendly Lisa Lantz at WSP in Olympia as the SW Regional Resource Steward and administered locally by Head Ranger Karl Hinze and the BRSP staff (w/ ex-Head Ranger Erik Plunkett in Olympia still very much involved in all things Beacon as Karl's new boss and head of the Region). Â The park and it's staff have been way busy for the past five years to get too involved with climbing on one hand, on the other they've been getting dinged in their annual performance reviews for not having an updated and current CMP in place. Erik is still dedicated to that happening and now that the big projects like the RR bridge, new entrance to the boat launch, and the demo of the trailer park are behind them I suspect they will now be getting to it sooner than later. Â In the end it will be their call on what goes in once the CMP is in place and, no, I'm not being hysterical - they will have a harder time deflecting sport route requests because those applicants will be able to point to the fixed pro count on this route and the odds are good they'll be under that count with anything they want to do. It flat out sets a lousy precedent, makes their job harder, and just adds to the pressure and risk over the long haul. Â ...can't some goddamn red chinaman please come put up a purer route for me, jesus!?! Sometimes the purer thing is to just walk away. I use fixed pro on occasion (there are three pins on Menopause), but there's no circumstance that would ever find me doing a line with a fraction of that count, but that's me and my FAs and I don't put FAs up for anyone else. Other folks make other decisions, but there's no getting around the entirely retro nature of this line. And, aside from the bad precedent it sets, a big part of all what gets me in all this again comes down to a general unwillingness around here to be as straight up as Miker has been and at least agree to call a spade a spade. Â Hey, I really do hate being a bummer and it sucks feeling compelled to say I think your 'kid' is ugly. But again, my real concern is strictly around the fixed pro count precedent set. Had McGown put it up in the late 70's or early 80s when things like this were happening it would be a different story and I'd say c'est la vie. But it's a different deal putting something like that up in the park today. Â Also, you know McGown looked at it long and hard bitd as well - and probably Dod, Caldwell, Schmitz, Tichner, and others did too - that they didn't do it should beg a pause to consider as well. Â [ P.S. As for the name, I'd suggest 'The Perils of Oprichnina'... ] Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 ivan, congrats on ur new route, ur right. i'm lying about everything. i never even climbed on the north face. i hope you die with the most TR's. Â No one claims you're lying. You are being a petty tool about all this, however. Â So you climbed a couple of pitches on the sly a long, long time ago? OK. Thanks for the update. Â Â Quote
kevbone Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 It flat out sets a lousy precedent, makes their job harder  I disagree. It does not set any precedent. Young Warriors?  And it does not make their job harder.....why say no when it feels so good to say yes. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 What I find a wee bit humorous is this: Â It's perfectly fine to bolt the shit out of an area like Darrington (where there would be, um...let's see...ZERO free routes without them, leaving a spectacular local group of wonderful granite domes completely fallow for climbers - BTW, MANY THANKS to those who've worked hard over the decades to develop that treasure), but putting up a new aid route on an unclimbed portion of Beacon, a route that has far fewer bolts than the average climb at Darrington, is not OK? Â OK. Â Unless you guys are arguing that if its not a trad route, it's not a route and shouldn't be climbed. Those of us up here who love Darrington might beg to differ on that. Quote
Kimmo Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Can't we just nip this thing in the bud and ban all Oregon climbers from beacon? I mean it is in WA and all.... Quote
JosephH Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Unless you guys are arguing that if its not a trad route, it's not a route and shouldn't be climbed. Those of us up here who love Darrington might beg to differ on that. That's precisely and exactly what I'm saying at Beacon. Beacon is an oasis of trad surrounded by a sea of sport climbing venues - there is ZERO reason for sport climbing at Beacon - go elsewhere if that's what you want. Don't like that? Piss off. Quote
JosephH Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 It flat out sets a lousy precedent, makes their job harder I disagree. It does not set any precedent. Young Warriors? Â And it does not make their job harder.....why say no when it feels so good to say yes. Well, that's certainly a valid perspective if your trigger finger has just been jonesing for risk-free Beacon sport routes. Have you given up metal and switched to playing soft rock and new age music to go with that? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Unless you guys are arguing that if its not a trad route, it's not a route and shouldn't be climbed. Those of us up here who love Darrington might beg to differ on that. That's precisely and exactly what I'm saying at Beacon. Beacon is an oasis of trad surrounded by a sea of sport climbing venues - there is ZERO reason for sport climbing at Beacon - go elsewhere if that's what you want. Don't like that? Piss off. Â It's not that I don't like it. It's that I don't care. Â I'm not the one who's whining here. I had a great time on the route when I was awake. Â Sometimes you just gotta deal with stuff you don't like. I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can swagger around calling the shots, but it's embarrassing to watch. In any case, you'll live. Quote
ivan Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 I had a great time on the route when I was awake. Â Â Â no line there Quote
JosephH Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Sometimes you just gotta deal with stuff you don't like. In the case of sport climbing at Beacon, no, I don't.  I'm not sure where you got the idea that you can swagger around calling the shots... I only operate in my own self-interest out there and that boils down to three things:  - climbing as many days a year out there as possible - that Beacon tradition prevails intact and sport climbing doesn't happen there - bad fixed belay/rap anchors suck  If promoting those three things is 'swaggering' then, yes, I'll definitely be swaggering.  ...but it's embarrassing to watch. Then don't, as nothing is going to change in that regard. Quote
Kimmo Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 has anyone considered simply banning all oregon climbers from beacon rock? is there any legal framework for developing such a scenario? interstate trade in idiocy? i don't know, something.... Quote
Teh Phuzzy Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 has anyone considered simply banning all oregon climbers from beacon rock? is there any legal framework for developing such a scenario? interstate trade in idiocy? i don't know, something.... Â Â Interstate Commerce Clause ? Â thats how the feds gained and abused most of their power anyway... Â Â Quote
AlpineK Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 I've never climbed at Beacon, but there seem to be a lot of wackos climbing there. Judging by this thread that is. Â Â Beacon Climbers [img:center]http://i1-win.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/9-Wacko-Faces-Icon-Pack_1.png[/img] Quote
denalidave Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Um, Joe, I'm just wondering how you climb Young Warriors so often if you are for ZERO "sport climbing" at Beacon? Seems to me, the general consensus of what makes a route a "sport route", is usually the fact that it is all (or mostly) bolts. Do you just skip all of them and put in all natural gear? I'm sure Jim would have a lot of reason why pitch 1 on YW is not a sport route, but I think the general consensus would conclude otherwise. Still, a great pitch, for the grade (IMO). Quote
JosephH Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Um, Joe, I'm just wondering how you climb Young Warriors so often if you are for ZERO "sport climbing" at Beacon? Seems to me, the general consensus of what makes a route a "sport route", is usually the fact that it is all (or mostly) bolts. Do you just skip all of them and put in all natural gear? I'm sure Jim would have a lot of reason why pitch 1 on YW is not a sport route, but I think the general consensus would conclude otherwise. Still, a great pitch, for the grade (IMO). Yeah, I climb it on gear without clipping any of the P1-p2 bolts quite often. I rope-solo it so often for the same reason as FFA up to the tree - yardage to get or stay in shape. I can whip out there and jam up them, run down the trail (in the case of YW), and be back to work or home relatively quickly and still get a decent overall aerobic workout. Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Joe, I'm curious why you haven't thrown a big fit about the recent sport climbs on the NW face since you're so indignant over Ivan's route? Quote
Kimmo Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 has anyone considered simply banning all oregon climbers from beacon rock? is there any legal framework for developing such a scenario? interstate trade in idiocy? i don't know, something.... Â Â Interstate Commerce Clause ? Â thats how the feds gained and abused most of their power anyway... Â Â the Interstate Commerce Clause has been used to great ends historically, and I do see an opportunity to employ it in the present beacon rock situation. Â obviously there exists an administrative apparatus that has been given legal oversite over the rock in question, and the simplest route to excluding Oregonians from this rock would be to lobby this apparatus, but having a back-up plan rooted in a constitutionally supported argument certainly gives additional weight to our position. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Hey I'm not the guy firing off the pompous PMs, am I? Then again, you won't be making that mistake again. Â From what I've observed, swaggering blowhards tend to get paid in the currency of disappointment. Best of luck telling us Washington boys how we should climb in our own state parks! Quote
denalidave Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Um, Joe, I'm just wondering how you climb Young Warriors so often if you are for ZERO "sport climbing" at Beacon? Seems to me, the general consensus of what makes a route a "sport route", is usually the fact that it is all (or mostly) bolts. Do you just skip all of them and put in all natural gear? I'm sure Jim would have a lot of reason why pitch 1 on YW is not a sport route, but I think the general consensus would conclude otherwise. Still, a great pitch, for the grade (IMO). Yeah, I climb it on gear without clipping any of the P1-p2 bolts quite often. I rope-solo it so often for the same reason as FFA up to the tree - yardage to get or stay in shape. I can whip out there and jam up them, run down the trail (in the case of YW), and be back to work or home relatively quickly and still get a decent overall aerobic workout. Fair enough if you NEVER clip the bolts. Otherwise, is see a bit of hypocrisy in ZERO sport climbing at Beacon. Quote
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