Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 ok so let me get this straight: "blah blah blah blabbety blah and a reduction in dtap vaccines led to infections that killed 10 children in california" whoa! please tell me more about this. what did the children die of? when did this happen? where exactly? Maybe there's a link here not with vaccines but overprescription of ADHD meds? Quote
kevbone Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I think we should focus on Erock having a kid. Yeah! Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I think we should focus on Erock having a kid. Yeah! Thanks, dude. Hope things are well for you and your rug-rat. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 ok so let me get this straight: "blah blah blah blabbety blah and a reduction in dtap vaccines led to infections that killed 10 children in california" whoa! please tell me more about this. what did the children die of? when did this happen? where exactly? California Pertussis Outbreak 2010, I'll leave the rest up to you, because I'm sure you'll come back with some real hum-dingers. Watch some you-tube videos of kids with petrussis. Any parent that does not vaccinate their kid against that preventable disease should have the CPS pay them a visit. Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 now that I'm having a kid. I heard this was theoretically possible It's called gay adoption, asshole, and they haven't outlawed it in my state yet. Quote
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Are you even reading your sources? is there a reason you are getting so worked up about this? coming out with "kook" and such, without obviously understanding a thing i'm saying. i suppose your history here does not prove you to be a deep thinker (although i have been told on good authority that you have an ADVANCED DEGREE! IS THIS TRUE?).... i read the article, linked it so others could read it, and think about the subject a bit, contrasting it with the 4 deaths in england (which we know almost nothing of, except that an emotive charge was made by a doc regarding what's-his-name's responsibility in the matter). there are people who want to simply believe ALL VACCINES ARE COMPLETELY SAFE AND NECCESSARY! and others who want to think ALL VACCINES ARE EVIL AND A CONSPIRACY! as per usual, the truth lies somewhere in between.... my advice would be to refrain from allowing the hep b vaccination in the hospital, usually now administered a day after birth. kind of a shitty welcoming into the world. unless of course your baby is into iv drugs ... i would also consider the spacing of vaccines that you conclude to be necessary. why clump them together, and potentially overload baby's system? aluminum adjuvants are present (in all?) vaccines, and the immune system is already stimulated by the rest of the vaccine; why do this with multiple vaccines at once? these are my humble opinings. Quote
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Hey, kimmi, how many American kids do u think have to worry about contaminated Indian pharmaceuticals? hi robbi! trick question? ok, how many? Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) is there a reason you are getting so worked up about this? coming out with "kook" and such, without obviously understanding a thing i'm saying. i suppose your history here does not prove you to be a deep thinker (although i have been told on good authority that you have an ADVANCED DEGREE! IS THIS TRUE?).... This is spray, dude. It's called trolling, or is that not what you were doing? As far as deep thinking is concerned, have you not read my poo threads? I'm hurt. i read the article, linked it so others could read it, and think about the subject a bit, contrasting it with the 4 deaths in england (which we know almost nothing of, except that an emotive charge was made by a doc regarding what's-his-name's responsibility in the matter). The MMR scare lead directly to steep declines in vaccination rates in the UK, Germany, and later the U.S. In the UK and Germany the declines in vaccination rates lead to increased transmission of measles and ultimately infant and child deaths. It's not that hard to understand. Why even ask the question if you're unwilling to research the answers. I agree with you that individual doctors should not be hysterically pinning those deaths squarely on Wakefield's head, but you don't think his fraudulent claims were dangerous? C'MON MAN. there are people who want to simply believe ALL VACCINES ARE COMPLETELY SAFE AND NECCESSARY! and others who want to think ALL VACCINES ARE EVIL AND A CONSPIRACY! as per usual, the truth lies somewhere in between.... This is a false dichotomy you've created. As if to say that if you fall in the middle you are somehow a moderate voice of reason. Vaccine safety is a matter of populational statistics, not individual case-by-case analysis. On a populational basis, all routinely administered vaccines in the United States are extremely safe, and the risks are not what the people at VacTruth claim they are. my advice would be to refrain from allowing the hep b vaccination in the hospital, usually now administered a day after birth. kind of a shitty welcoming into the world. unless of course your baby is into iv drugs ... Shitty as opposed to... what? the shock of childbirth? That's your argument? I can understand if you and your family are already vaccinated and your child won't be going to daycare why you might want to hold off on this until your baby is older for emotional reasons. Other than that.... i would also consider the spacing of vaccines that you conclude to be necessary. why clump them together, and potentially overload baby's system? aluminum adjuvants are present (in all?) vaccines, and the immune system is already stimulated by the rest of the vaccine; why do this with multiple vaccines at once? Because there's no good reason not to, and many of these vaccines are critical in protecting the child's health as soon as possible, particularly when adults in increasing numbers are refusing vaccination in educated strongholds of the U.S. Adjuvants are used because they work. Vaccines don't always take, hence the need for herd immunity and agents that increase their effectiveness. Edited January 7, 2011 by E-rock Quote
G-spotter Posted January 7, 2011 Author Posted January 7, 2011 now that I'm having a kid. I heard this was theoretically possible It's called gay adoption, asshole, and they haven't outlawed it in my state yet. I was referring to this: Male pregnancy Quote
G-spotter Posted January 7, 2011 Author Posted January 7, 2011 You and Michael Jackson. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/99784/2 Quote
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 The MMR scare lead directly to steep declines in vaccination rates in the UK, Germany, and later the U.S. In the UK and Germany the declines in vaccination rates lead to increased transmission of measles and ultimately infant and child deaths. poo threads aside, how many infant and child deaths resulted from this situation you describe above? since you have done so much research, can you also describe various compounding factors in the deaths (if there were any)? Vaccine safety is a matter of populational statistics, not individual case-by-case analysis. you are back to being a kook again. "but doctor, you told me vaccines were absolutely safe!" "well, they are. just not for your child. sorry." anyways, it sounds like you think you have figured it out for yourself and your baby. after deep and open-minded research, of course! I do wish you all the best, sincerely. it's an amazing amazing time! Quote
kevbone Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I think we should focus on Erock having a kid. Yeah! Thanks, dude. Hope things are well for you and your rug-rat. Rug-rat's.....got two now. Quote
rob Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Just because there are two sides, with equally passionate convictions, doesn't mean the truth necessarily lies in the middle. One side could just be wrong. Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) poo threads aside, how many infant and child deaths resulted from this situation you describe above? since you have done so much research, can you also describe various compounding factors in the deaths (if there were any)? What do the compounding factors matter (if any)? And if you're so skeptical, I'm willing to hear the results of your web search. The fact is that children died due to complications of infections diseases that were preventable because their parents chose not vaccinate. If there were other immune or health problems that hastened the result, it doesn't change the fact that the community vaccination rate was low, and the children caught the disease prevented by the vaccine. you are back to being a kook again. "but doctor, you told me vaccines were absolutely safe!" "well, they are. just not for your child. sorry." That's kinda how it works, yes. The alternative is that someday down the road you start getting people who do want to vaccinate their children who find that their children are infected with preventable diseases before they are immune, because some selfish socialites in the San Diego suburbs took their chiropractor's advice not to vaccinate. Which is a much more frightening and rational scenario than the one you describe. anyways, it sounds like you think you have figured it out for yourself and your baby. after deep and open-minded research, of course! Do you mean open-minded in the yoga-hippy way, or in the scientific-rational way? It depends whether or not I take this as a compliment. I do wish you all the best, sincerely. it's an amazing amazing time! Thanks, man. Looking forward to it. Edited January 7, 2011 by E-rock Quote
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Just because there are two sides, with equally passionate convictions, doesn't mean the truth necessarily lies in the middle. One side could just be wrong. of course not. and i didn't say "middle". my dichotomy was based on the two (extreme) polarized positions that i used in my simpleton's argument, nothing more. and yes, without a doubt, between those two positions, the "truth" DOES lie somewhere in between, robbi my dear. Quote
ivan Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 seems to me a mostly silly issue - even IF autism were a remote, remote consequence of a vaccine, it seems pretty obvious your kids more likely to die or be fucked up as a consequence of getting the disease life's dangerous, buy a helmet. Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 how many infant and child deaths resulted from this situation you describe above? since you have done so much research, can you also describe various compounding factors in the deaths (if there were any)? Point being I seriously doubt you have anywhere the expertise of a doctor or the particular doctors who found Mr. Quack was unfit due to fraud, but you offer your opinion as if it is equal to their expertise. So what do you think your "research" really amounts to? Birther, 9/11, what? Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Here's some food for thought, Kimmo. A vaccinated person in an unvaccinated community is less safe (statistically) than an unvaccinated person in a vaccinated community. Which scenario do you think the vaccine truthers would most benefit from on an individual basis, and which scenario to you think would eventually discredit them? Now which scenario has a higher cost in lives, and overall public health? It's a LUXURY to be an anti-vaccine "activist" in the first world. As soon as it no longer is, those people will no longer peddle their snake oil. My point of view is that the fear of vaccines has become so irrationally pervasive, that some communities are going to face consequences if it's not stopped, and I definitely don't want my family to be part of one of those communities. Edited January 7, 2011 by E-rock Quote
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 What do the compounding factors matter (if any)? And if you're so skeptical, I'm willing to hear the results of your web search. The fact is that children died due to complications of infections diseases that were preventable because their parents chose not vaccinate. If there were other immune or health problems that hastened the result, it doesn't change the fact that they weren't vaccinated. you keep saying children died due to complications, but you haven't said anything about how many, and what were the circumstances. and yes, circumstances matter. a child is dying of cancer, and contracts measles. ummm, which one killed him? or has a congenital heart disorder etc etc. That's kinda how it works, yes. wrong. Do you mean open-minded in the yoga-hippy way, or in the scientific-rational way? It depends whether or not I take this as a compliment. you evidently do not know a thing about "yoga". although i do envy the comforts of your rational life (well, sometimes). rockwellian, really. btw, since you brought it up, what is your "advanced degree" in? Quote
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 you keep saying children died due to complications, but you haven't said anything about how many, and what were the circumstances. and yes, circumstances matter. a child is dying of cancer, and contracts measles. ummm, which one killed him? or has a congenital heart disorder etc etc. 2010 California Pertussis Outbreak. Look. it. up. wrong. wrong. btw, since you brought it up, what is your "advanced degree" in? I don't need to defend my professional credentials to you. I'm not working in that capacity in spray. And "quotes" are for quoting stuff, see. Quote
kevbone Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Any parent that does not vaccinate their kid against that preventable disease should have the CPS pay them a visit. One could say the same thing about spanking. Quote
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