kevbone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm having a kid. Congrats!!!! I thought to troll Kevbone for fun, cuz I figured if there's anyone who believes this anti-vaccination propoganda, it's him. Thanks for letting me know what I believe in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 a sure sign of factage. Is this a word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 now that I'm having a kid. I heard this was theoretically possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 P.S. Kimmo, you're a kook. i appreciate your input. on to other news.... from what i heard (on npr), some british docs indicated that, by reducing significantly the vaccination rates, this anti-vaccine doc's research has led to 4 deaths. no details were given about the deaths themselves, but i believe they were related to complications with measles. it's interesting to contrast this accusation with the following information: Vaccine programmes grind to a halt in India once more, when four children died after they received the measles vaccination in Lucknow. The four children were reported to have fainted soon after they were vaccinated and witnesses reported seeing the children's eyes roll back as they began to have seizures. All of the children were under the age of two years of age, with the youngest being just six months. Sadly the children died before medical aid workers could reach them. link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) P.S. Kimmo, you're a kook. i appreciate your input. on to other news.... from what i heard (on npr), some british docs indicated that, by reducing significantly the vaccination rates, this anti-vaccine doc's research has led to 4 deaths. no details were given about the deaths themselves, but i believe they were related to complications with measles. it's interesting to contrast this accusation with the following information: Vaccine programmes grind to a halt in India once more, when four children died after they received the measles vaccination in Lucknow. The four children were reported to have fainted soon after they were vaccinated and witnesses reported seeing the children's eyes roll back as they began to have seizures. All of the children were under the age of two years of age, with the youngest being just six months. Sadly the children died before medical aid workers could reach them. link You're the one crying for "facts" then cite an article filled with nothing but hearsay and rumors and linking VacTruth.com as a journalistic source? C'MON MAN. Ohhh and looky, looky. Christina England, the author of your "news" article, just so happens to be a primary contributor at the VacTruth website. Edited January 7, 2011 by E-rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 btw, just to clarify, i am not "anti-vaccine" per se. i am very interested in the subject due to personal reasons, so this has led me to read a lot of material on the subject. and to conclude that yet, once again, life refuses to fit into a neat little right/wrong bad/good dichotomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Where's FRAUD fit in your world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You're the one crying for "facts" then cite an article filled with nothing but hearsay and rumors and linking VacTruth.com as a journalistic source? C'MON MAN. are you a kook? firstly, my "facts" mission originated in another thread, having nothing to do with vaccinations. pay attention. secondly, 4 kids didn't die in india after receiving the measles vaccine; is this what you are saying? are you further saying that vaccines are completely safe? if so, you are contradicting our very own beloved medical establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Actually, most people who are "anti-vaccine" claim not to be, only a few fanatical lunatics fall under that category of self procolomation (i.e. "straight" chiropractors like Tedd Koren). There's a place in all subjects for skepticism, further research, enhanced models, review, and synthesis. However, that's not what the "anti-vaccine" lobby (for lack of a better term) does. They simply latch onto random factoids that support their superstitious belief structure, even in the face of clear misdirection. For example the decreasing numbers of DTaP vaccinations in "educated" parts of California, which led to a decline in "herd" immunity and the eventual infection and death of 10 un-immunized or partially-immunized infants last year. The mindset that led to this is fueled specifically by the writings of people like Christina England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I find it amusing that the anti-vacs/911 types use the same methods as climate change doubters but expect the rest of us to see 'em as progressive as if they are guardians of the TRUTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 You're the one crying for "facts" then cite an article filled with nothing but hearsay and rumors and linking VacTruth.com as a journalistic source? C'MON MAN. are you a kook? firstly, my "facts" mission originated in another thread, having nothing to do with vaccinations. pay attention. secondly, 4 kids didn't die in india after receiving the measles vaccine; is this what you are saying? are you further saying that vaccines are completely safe? if so, you are contradicting our very own beloved medical establishment. link See comment in linked news item from Raymond. Raymond's assertations about vaccines are as credible as the assertations that vaccines killed 4 kids in India reported in your source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Where's FRAUD fit in your world? i am glad that you have, by using your understanding of facts of course, been convinced of this doc's FRAUD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 secondly, 4 kids didn't die in india after receiving the measles vaccine; is this what you are saying? are you further saying that vaccines are completely safe? if so, you are contradicting our very own beloved medical establishment. For such a challenger of "FACTS" you certainly are jumping around facts and to conclusions. Nice use of the straw man BTW. So where's the link between MMr and autism and why exactly did the 4 kids die and was it from autism? KOOK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 are you a kook? Nope, I'm just a near middle-aged, middle-class white guy, with a post graduate degree, a house, a wife, and a dog, and a kid on the way with a sister who should be as boring a normal as me but for some reason falls under the influence of fringe lunatics, and I'm trying understand the mindset. firstly, my "facts" mission originated in another thread, having nothing to do with vaccinations. pay attention. Whoahoho, you sure got me on that one. secondly, 4 kids didn't die in india after receiving the measles vaccine; is this what you are saying? No, I'm just saying that they didn't die BECAUSE of the vaccine merely because a "journalist" who has made a career on championing the superstitious beliefs of her readership says so. are you further saying that vaccines are completely safe? if so, you are contradicting our very own beloved medical establishment. No. Hence the research. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Like I said earlier, I'll leave it to competent professional licensing boards and prestigious publications like the Lancet over some wiki-kook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 link See comment in linked news item from Raymond. Raymond's assertations about vaccines are as credible as the assertations that vaccines killed 4 kids in India reported in your source. really? so you are also doubting the deaths? indian pediatrics article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 More credible vaccine research and assertations: linky link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 OK let's settle it this way: WWSD? That's what would [agent] Scully do? I'm pretty sure the alien hybrid baby still gets the MMR if she has anything to do with it. On the bright side, I'm pretty sure most folks heading to Asia on climbing trips are getting good vaccinations and boosters, I haven't turned into a half grey yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 More credible vaccine research and assertations: linky link I think a steady diet of either tofu or Doritos has the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 For such a challenger of "FACTS" you certainly are jumping around facts and to conclusions. Nice use of the straw man BTW. So where's the link between MMr and autism and why exactly did the 4 kids die and was it from autism? KOOK! can you cite one "fact" that I have challenged? please stop being a kook now. both you and that erock fellow. don't make so many assumptions about what it is i'm saying. stick to the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well it's your grasp of them........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) link See comment in linked news item from Raymond. Raymond's assertations about vaccines are as credible as the assertations that vaccines killed 4 kids in India reported in your source. really? so you are also doubting the deaths? indian pediatrics article Are you even reading your sources? Here are the conclusions: "The real cause for vaccination related deaths in Tamil Nadu may never be known as the incriminated vial is not available for analysis. However, they appear to be due to human error and eminently preventable. It also appears that it would have been possible to resuscitate the affected children had resuscitative equipment and knowledge been available at site. Pediatricians should make all attempts to allay anxiety of parents regarding vaccine safety. They should make all attempts to maintain cold chain, keep resuscitative equip- ment on stand by and discard any left over vaccine beyond the recommended time of administration." In contrast, Christina England would like to present this case as further damnation of vaccination as a safe method of immunizing children against diseases that KILL BABIES AT MUCH HIGHER RATES THAN MEDICAL MISTAKES DO IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD. Not only that, but anytime something like this happens in areas of the world where vaccine campaigns are taking place, conspiracy theories soon after spread like wildfire, and the immunization rates go down. By the way, Christina England seems unfazed by the allegations of fraud against Mr. Wakefield. Even though it's quite clear from Mr. Deer's article in the BMJ, that none of the actual circumstances of each test case in the original Lancet article correspond to the anonymously numbered test cases in the paper, and those are cold. hard. facts. Kimmo, it doesn't matter that you're playing coy about what it is you're actually trying to say (which seems to be nothing). What matters is that you appear to be heading down a garden path of non-credible sources in response to a credible publication linked at the beginning of this thread. It's at the very least curious, don't you think? Edited January 7, 2011 by E-rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ok so let me get this straight: "blah blah blah blabbety blah and a reduction in dtap vaccines led to infections that killed 10 children in california" whoa! please tell me more about this. what did the children die of? when did this happen? where exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hey, kimmi, how many American kids do u think have to worry about contaminated Indian pharmaceuticals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ok so let me get this straight: "blah blah blah blabbety blah and a reduction in dtap vaccines led to infections that killed 10 children in california" whoa! please tell me more about this. what did the children die of? when did this happen? where exactly? California Pertussis Outbreak 2010, I'll leave the rest up to you, because I'm sure you'll come back with some real hum-dingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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