REI Sucks

[jfs1978]

It is what it is. I rarely buy anything too technical at REI, but that's what specialty shops like PMS or FF are for. Great place to buy sleeping pads and shit, because when you break it they take it back. I took back a 5 year old harness there and got a new one, no problem.

 

Sucks to have gift certificate there if you are in the market for a product that they don't carry though.

 

lemme get this straight...

people are pissed off that REI doesn't carry gear that they can buy and abuse for 5 years...and then return...

 

riiiiight.

 

And ya wonder why REI is abandoning the dirtbags...?

 

ha!

[AlpineK]

I've read a number of articles saying companies offering similar products often set up shop close to each other. They are competing, but a potential customer only need to go to one district or area of town. All companies benefit from the arrangement.

 

Hugh does bring up a good point. REI was set up as a cooperative back when climbers in the NW wanted things like ice axes but couldn't purchase them and or filling out all the forms to import one ice ax from Europe was a major pain. In modern times running for a board position at REI is essentially impossible for Joe/Jane member. The company is a cooperative in name only.

 

I've talked to a few people who work at climbing, or outdoor stores. No matter how much technical gear they stock the big money maker is clothing. The folks who run REI chose to expand and place stores all over the place. Each store needs to make money, so the big money making items like clothing get the big dog position in the store. Climbing gear doesn't bring in much money, so it takes a lower position.

 

REI needs to retain some climbing equipment to keep up their image, but they're following the same path Eddie Bauer and The North Face did. You can find climbing gear that may be just what you want, but I wouldn't go there if you want an unusual item. Also, chances are low you'll find somebody working there who can answer questions about the performance of an item and compare it to similar products.

 

There is the REI dividend, but other companies often offer discounts or price their products to match the dividend.

[Hugh Conway]

Seems like the constant stream of people looking for super high-end/niche/technical gear at REI that wind up heading to FF has been good for FF over the years?

 

given they moved locations alongside REI... yes. But the Seattle market is atypical, ime.

 

In the Bay Area REI/online retailers/demographics pushed the independents out of business and now most REI locations don't carry anything mildly technical (including ski touring gear) leaving locals with few choices. All of the ski gear is now gone by the first of March.

 

Feck's got it the REI "dividend" is just a buyers club rebate

[DavidW]

When you return something to the big outdoor box store you are not "sticking it to them" in any way. At the end of the season the Big Store simply doesn't pay the vendor for the returned items and the vendor doesn't complain because of the volume of sales. The vendor then builds that loss into next years basic price and so the price of a pair of gloves or pant or a GPS or whatever goes up by a small fraction.

 

Ultimately everyone in the industry winds up paying for the returned items whether they were returned honestly or not. This is corporate america with CEO's pulling down six figures, they're not doing you right with an easy return policy to be friendly at all, they just spread the costs around where they aren't easily seen.

 

The soccer moms are not the only ones paying for all the dishonest returns, ALL the rest of us are, a few cents at a time.

[Bosterson]

@DavidW - amen.

 

Also: most gear (esp. textiles) are made overseas where labor is cheaper. I used to work at a store (starts with a P- and ends with -atagonia) where there was a similar no-questions-asked return policy, and we did indeed have people trying to return fucking 10+ year old clothing (someone returned - I shit you not - some Chouinard clothing!). That kind of return policy is practicable because for them - a retail store, as opposed to wholesale, like REI - anything they're selling in the store is priced 4 times as much as it costs to make and put on the shelf. Even at REI, all those jackets and sleeping bags are sewn by Chinese people who get paid a pittance of our minimum wage. If gear were made in USA, the labor prices would be astronomical and 1) people would not be able to buy gear on their every whim (no Arc'teryx jackets for soccer moms), and 2) no company would actually be able to have a 100% satisfaction return policy. Gear would either be repaired when necessary, or -gasp- would be made properly the first time around. Dishonest returns would be denied.

 

Another problem with 100% satisfaction return policies is that they're sort of a nuclear arms race between competing stores - how many people shop at REI (which, as we've established, has an ice climbing section with no ice screws) because they want to be able to return anything at any time, vs shopping at a small store that can't afford that kind of policy? The Cascade Climbers-type crowd (ie, real users) may not defect to REI, but all the casual users will, and then with the customer base gone, the small shops go out of business...

[Josh Lewis]

My beef with them is they are expensive! I call them the hollister for climbers. Ok so maybe they are not that bad.

[Hugh Conway]

(someone returned - I shit you not - some Chouinard clothing!)

 

that's funny - they likely could have sold it on eBay for more money than they received for a return

 

My returning a Marmot sleeping bag (aka big behemoth megacorp) and having REI (aka big behemoth megacorp) duke it out bothers me zilch; perhaps eventually we'll get to where the flyfishing industry has recently evolved to with "no questions asked" warranties being reserved for high end stuff, and other, cheaper, stuff having none.

[Captain panther]

i just wanna say i like when the soccer moms and rich old cougars come in. one of the few perks, aside from prodeals. aint nothing wrong with a hot old lady

[denalidave]

I recently returned a 1996 era REI ice axe that I'd broken the adze off (using it as a pry bar to tighten a fan belt). I still had the original receipt. I thought they'd hassle me. Instead, the guy at the counter got all excited and started parading around the store showing it off and bragging about it's age. I'd been thinking of taking it back since I broke it back in 2001ish. Seemed like a great PR moment for them.

[rob]

i just wanna say i like when the soccer moms and rich old cougars come in. one of the few perks, aside from prodeals. aint nothing wrong with a hot old lady

 

word. old ladies have money, son.

[billcoe]

I recently returned a 1996 era REI ice axe that I'd broken the adze off (using it as a pry bar to tighten a fan belt). I still had the original receipt. I thought they'd hassle me. Instead, the guy at the counter got all excited and started parading around the store showing it off and bragging about it's age. I'd been thinking of taking it back since I broke it back in 2001ish. Seemed like a great PR moment for them.

 

Eternity with you will be awesome! Glad to have your company.

[denalidave]

I recently returned a 1996 era REI ice axe that I'd broken the adze off (using it as a pry bar to tighten a fan belt). I still had the original receipt. I thought they'd hassle me. Instead, the guy at the counter got all excited and started parading around the store showing it off and bragging about it's age. I'd been thinking of taking it back since I broke it back in 2001ish. Seemed like a great PR moment for them.

 

Eternity with you will be awesome!

At least we will be nice and warm together. MERRY CHRISTMAS BILL, many prosperous REI returns to you & yours...

[stevetimetravlr]

hey, you guys need to get a portaledge. Does anyone climb on this site anymore?

[denalidave]

hey, you guys need to get a portaledge. Does anyone climb on this site anymore?

Nope, been a couple months now ... Hoping you'll ropegun my fat arse up some epic 5.5 soon though.

[denalidave]

Keep in mind REI can make whatever return policy they want. Always keep your receipts and take advantage of a policy THEY CHOOSE to implement. If it were not for the Return Every Item policy, I'd certainly rarely, if ever, shop there. Like Bill says, I too would not return stuff to the small gear shop (unless it was a factory defect or similar) as I know they can barely survive as it is.

[Bosterson]

Keep in mind REI can make whatever return policy they want. Always keep your receipts and take advantage of a policy THEY CHOOSE to implement.

 

If Chevron started giving out free gasoline, that still wouldn't mean we'd be better off driving as much as we wanted. REI's return policy is not some sort of mistake that we're "taking advantage" of - it makes them money, and there are economic, environmental, and social repurcussions for that. One can have an opinion either way about whether or not it's a good thing, but we consumers are the ones who ultimately condone it or not. If it continues to exist, we are the ones who let it. Taking consideration of this is called being a responsible consumer.

[Coldfinger]

Well it seems they do DESTROY many climbing related returns, even if they're unused, one fellow told me he had to cut up a brand new dead bird harness simply because the lady bought the wrong size and exchanged it for another.

 

 

[Josh Lewis]

Wow really?

[denalidave]

Keep in mind REI can make whatever return policy they want. Always keep your receipts and take advantage of a policy THEY CHOOSE to implement.

 

If Chevron started giving out free gasoline, that still wouldn't mean we'd be better off driving as much as we wanted. REI's return policy is not some sort of mistake that we're "taking advantage" of - it makes them money, and there are economic, environmental, and social repurcussions for that. One can have an opinion either way about whether or not it's a good thing, but we consumers are the ones who ultimately condone it or not. If it continues to exist, we are the ones who let it. Taking consideration of this is called being a responsible consumer.

True. However, I'm not going to lose any sleep for returning a broken item that they gave a lifetime warranty on. In the end we will all continue to be consumers. So yeah, try to use everything to the fullest extent of it's lifespan. Waste not, want not...

 

When Chevron starts giving me free gas, sign me up. Does not mean I will drive more, just for the sake of driving. I'm sure most people in out greedy society would though.

[Bosterson]

I'm not going to lose any sleep for returning a broken item that they gave a lifetime warranty on.

 

I don't think anyone here is against warranties per se. Things break cause they're badly designed or cause there was a manufacturing error or whatever. I am totally in favor of companies warrantying their stuff within reason. (Though note that those kinds of problems really should go to the manufacturer, not to the retailer. Most good manufacturers already have reasonable warranties for their products, which makes retailer warranties like REI's redundant. If everyone who had a problem with their gear had to contact the manufacturer and send it back, the dishonest/exploitative returns would get weeded out pretty fast... Also note that no non-retail companies - ie, the manufacturers who sell their gear to REI to be resold - offer the kind of 100% satisfaction guaranteed warranty we're talking about. I'm ready to stand corrected on this if anyone knows of one, but can you imagine a climbing shoe company saying something retarded like "We GUARANTEE that everyone will love this shoe, it will fit everyone's foot, everyone will be able to climb 5.14, etc., or your money back!"??)

 

I think for the purposes of the discussion we've been having about return policies, what we're all talking about is the sketchy returns like people who return climbing shoes for new pairs when the rubber wears out (never saw that coming!), or this woman at Patagucci who returned a $200 cashmere sweater she'd been wearing because it made her "look old."

 

In the end we will all continue to be consumers.

 

Truest statement yet.

[Bosterson]

Well it seems they do DESTROY many climbing related returns, even if they're unused, one fellow told me he had to cut up a brand new dead bird harness simply because the lady bought the wrong size and exchanged it for another.

 

Actually, this one is tricky because I think from the perspective of liability they have to do this. Climbing softgoods aren't like other equipment in that you die if they fail. It's too bad they can't give that kind of thing under the table to their employees, but if the harness turned out to have been used and ended up failing, they'd probably still be liable... (It's the same problem with food companies being liable for sickness caused by unsold food they gave away for free. Our good samaritan laws haven't caught up yet with sensibility and conservation.)

 

BTW, took me a sec to figure out what the hell a "dead bird" harness was. I like it.

[rocketparrotlet]

(someone returned - I shit you not - some Chouinard clothing!)

 

that's funny - they likely could have sold it on eBay for more money than they received for a return

 

I have some Chouinard hooks and carabiners...are they worth money for being old?

[obwan]

I wasn't going to jump into this one as I was a past employee; and as a member of the COOP I was always frustrated with the return policy - so I was banned from working in Customer Service. Some of the stuff discussed herein is valid - Return Everything Inc. was sometimes difficult to accept; but from a business perspective it makes sense and actually works out in the long term. It's called 100% customer satisfaction.

As a climber (and I know that there are not many left in the retail job market), I almost cried when I saw brand new ropes (factory wrapped) cut up ): - but as said above it becomes a liability issue. I mean, you don't know if someones dog pee'd or pooped on it. For liability reasons, once climbing gear has left the store it could not be sold. It would not be cool if you rapped off the nose of Monkey Face and found the rope shredded or was sabotaged.

Once every year an item would sneak through the process and it would be a wet harness, steaming up the plastic bag. Typically it came from a first timer on Rainier, who rented axe, helmet ,crampons and boots - but could not rent a harness, so they bought one and then returned it. It's the same as the Nordstrom story, where you buy a Tuxedo for your wedding and then return it. Pretty lame.

That's my two cents and I'm sticking to my story.

[jfs1978]

Kinda funny to watch all the hoops people jump through when they want to justify something.

 

If you aren't satisfied with boots lasting only a decade, or your sleeping bag melting when you slept next to the fire, or the jacket that "tore" when your kid took a scissors to it, or the pants that wore a hole in the seat after hiking the entire PCT, or can't figure out how to patch your own thermarest...you CAN return it. Hooray for you!

 

If you're ok with that...go right ahead. You're apparently completely helpless ... but go ahead. =)

 

And don't forget to complain about how over-priced all this outdoor gear is as you walk out the door. Or wonder why companies focus on markets they can actually make money off of. Or rip on all those chumps who paid full price for that dead bird harness. You're better than them anyway.

[Lucky Larry]

moved to spray

Edited December 26, 2010 by Lucky Larry