Farside or Dropzone

[JosephH]

...isn't there like a buck peak, table mountain and a castle rock like in every frickin state.

sure, but not two...how about let's call the next cobblestone find in OR 'Smith'. I emailed Tim and asked him to just not include it, but of course, no one would get strokes that way.

[billcoe]

...isn't there like a buck peak, table mountain and a castle rock like in every frickin state.

sure, but not two...how about let's call the next cobblestone find in OR 'Smith'. I emailed Tim and asked him to just not include it, but of course, no one would get strokes that way.

 

I suspect that despite what some folks think, Tims not putting FA info into the book. Much like your extension to Rhythm Method at Beacon. Your name is interestingly absent on that in the last version JH, but he mentions the extension. It's fine by me although I like looking at the stuff myself on occasion. I'd like to see the Farside included in there so that the routes stay clean. Tim will be happy with the new material as well I'm sure. Last Saturday I looked at Freak Freely and it was way overgrown -so I need to go clean on it. I don't mind cleaning something once, twice....OK, but at some point, just climbing is what I want to be doing, and not ripping out sticker bushes sticking out of a crack while standing on a poor stance with bare hands. Getting folks on that stuff will help keep it climbable.

 

Kind of following up on what Brian is saying above, I've noticed that the few folks that have found the spot have given feed back that the routes are under graded. Not sure if it's the grades or the serious technical nature of the pro. One of these folks was 1/2 way up and expressing concern on one of the "lighter routes". This would have been easier on my mind if dude was a begineer, but it wasn't: it was someone who has done 2 different El Cap routes in a day and a bunch of badassed stuff like that. It makes me concerned for less experienced folks climbing 5.10 in the gym over the winter then buying Tims new guidebook and just heading out there in the spring and run up the 5.9s only to discover to their horror and sorrow that they are significantly more dangerous and difficult than any 5.10+ they've ever encountered. I am feeling a tad uncomfortable with that but don't know what to do. I had all these warning labels on the route list I was producing, but I understand those might be gone to be replaced with a homily to Jim. Well written homily and overdue for sure, but some words of warning for new folks might be in order as well.

 

I like the British system.....the R and X isn't really doing it for this spot.

[denalidave]

i have a few friends named andrew and their wives drive over to my house and accidentally crawl in bed with me quite often isn't there like a buck peak, table mountain and a castle rock like in every frickin state.

 

i think this thread could use a good douche

[kevbone]

I suspect that despite what some folks think, Tims not putting FA info into the book.

 

Why? What is the logic behind this?

 

Last Saturday I looked at Freak Freely and it was way overgrown

 

 

Jim already has a climb he named at Dreamland called Freak Freely. That’s funny

 

 

One of these folks was 1/2 way up and expressing concern on one of the "lighter routes". This would have been easier on my mind if dude was a begineer, but it wasn't: it was someone who has done 2 different El Cap routes in a day and a bunch of badassed stuff like that. It makes me concerned for less experienced folks climbing 5.10 in the gym over the winter then buying Tims new guidebook and just heading out there in the spring and run up the 5.9s.

 

Climb at your own risk. I do believe Tim’s book has a warning of the danger area in the beginning of his book.

 

 

I am feeling a tad uncomfortable with that but don't know what to do. I had all these warning labels on the route list I was producing, but I understand those might be gone to be replaced with a homily to Jim. Well written homily for sure, but some words of warning might be in order.

 

 

Tim is giving respect to Jim by doing a small write up on him. I have read it and it is awesome. The NW climbing scene would be a different place had it not been for Jim. Jim…..you are the man. Thank you for 15 years of mentorship!

 

[stevetimetravlr]

Holy snikies Bill, are you sure your friend did 2 El Cap routes in a day? That sounds really tiring.

I just emailed Tim and demanded he name it The Girl with the Golden Nipples & Brass Balls Crag.

That should command some respect and everything could be R/X rated!

Also, what the heck is a homily Bill? Are you gay bashing or just happy to see us?

DenaliDave, isn't it time you healed up and got back out? How long can a guy go on a layoff after hurting himself running down the trail? What was the hurry anyway, a beer run? Ya got to come up with something better then that.

I'm using the old "I took a 50 footer in Yosemite so thats why I'm doing the SE Corner" excuse, as a explanation for my lameness lately. Works everytime and no one flips me any shit. In fact my old war wound is starting to act up now....this cold weather and all...

[denalidave]

DenaliDave, isn't it time you healed up and got back out? How long can a guy go on a layoff after hurting himself running down the trail? What was the hurry anyway, a beer run? Ya got to come up with something better then that.

Almost there... It's been a month tomorrow. I still have a knife in my neck, a possible torn bicep tendon and a few other aches/pains. But yes, as soon as it's dry, you can rope-gun my feeble, old, pathetic, fat arse up the corner.

[hemp22]

Well, I wasn't really going to get involved in this, because I could care less what the place gets called.

But, I saw what Bill said above, and wanted to add: If Tim does add all the Ozone/DropZone beta to his new edition, but doesn't include all the FA information, then that's tragic, and you guys shouldn't put up with that. The worst thing about his recent editions is that he removed all that FA information. Is it so hard to add a few pages back by the index?

It leaves me with having to question Tim's motives for re-releasing the same dribble every year with minimal added content, and unfortunately I end up losing respect for him and the book when I do that.

 

But, back on topic, since I'm here:

Do you guys really care what it gets named in Tim's book? It's nothing more than an extension of ozone anyway. It's not a geographically different place. Just lump it all together with different "Walls" named.

 

Tim named the Lake Oswego crag the "Iron Mountain crag" is his latest books. Have any of you ever met someone who calls it the Iron Mountain Crag? It's always been the Lake O crag, or just the railroad crag, even for people who never climbed before the book came out.

It's obvious that what is published will have ~zero impact on what people end up calling it.

 

And, sorry Joe, but the "there's already a far side" argument is weak. People aren't going to get them confused. And yes, there are already duplicate named features all over the place in this state. Multiple Table Rocks, etc. There are at least 2 Red Walls at Oregon crags - do people ever get them confused?

 

 

So, anyway, my input on what it should be called is, you're kidding yourself if you think it matters.

[JosephH]

I have no problem being left out of guidebooks and in fact asked Tim to leave me out - but, I also asked him to not include my routes. It's pretty much a dick move to include my lines anyway, but it's not like I've ever had any expectations around how this was going to go. I care more about it being published at all and don't care a wit whether I get 'credit'.

 

As far as the grades at DZ goes - the only lines that need explicit r/x ratings that I know of are Hollow Victory and the Oracle. Both are dead serious leads. If they are getting published anyway it's imperative those caveats are clearly and explicitly stated and I've conveyed that to Tim and on MP.com. But if r/x doesn't get that message across I don't know what would. As far as things being underated I'd disagree and say they are entirely consistent with Beacon ratings.

 

Two Farsides isn't weak? Two walls named the same at different crags is way different than two crags named the same. Again, two Smiths in OR? How about a second Eldo or Diamond in CO? That's the definition of weak. And there's another route called 'Freaking Freely'? Sorry, that's just strange, never heard of anyone doubling up on route names.

 

And speaking of FF - love it - but people don't climb it because of the start, the first 'pinnacle' block, the loose blocks in the slot, and the strange anchoring / finish. I wouldn't get my hopes up there regardless of what gets published.

 

And publishing the LO crag is just plain ignorant - you'll only piss off the railroad guys who are the same crew who manage the tracks at Beacon - smooth, real smooth. It could easily be the same sort of nightmare that will happen with WDOT if folks ever start parking on the north side of the road at DZ.

[ivan]

it is sad that the fa info's not in the new olson book, as i very much have enjoyed looking htat shit up in my almost entirely decreipt 2nd edition (which i also removed all the "xavier masters" story from - holy shit, is that in the newer editions, 'cuz there's your page savings! ) - has been useful too, as w/o it i wouldn't have known who to ask permission from to add the anchor to smooth dancer this summer.

[stevetimetravlr]

I agree that the first ascent info should be in the guidebook when available. Including the history and route background gives allot of the feel and character of the area. Especially if its going to be the premier guidebook of the area. Maybe we should plead the case with Tim and see if we can get first ascent history included.

Come on Tim if you're reading this, include first ascent and route history in the new guide please!!!

[pink]

I suspect that despite what some folks think, Tims not putting FA info into the book.

 

Why? What is the logic behind this?

 

Last Saturday I looked at Freak Freely and it was way overgrown

 

 

 

 

Jim already has a climb he named at Dreamland called Freak Freely. That’s funny

 

 

One of these folks was 1/2 way up and expressing concern on one of the "lighter routes". This would have been easier on my mind if dude was a begineer, but it wasn't: it was someone who has done 2 different El Cap routes in a day and a bunch of badassed stuff like that. It makes me concerned for less experienced folks climbing 5.10 in the gym over the winter then buying Tims new guidebook and just heading out there in the spring and run up the 5.9s.

 

Climb at your own risk. I do believe Tim’s book has a warning of the danger area in the beginning of his book.

 

 

I am feeling a tad uncomfortable with that but don't know what to do. I had all these warning labels on the route list I was producing, but I understand those might be gone to be replaced with a homily to Jim. Well written homily for sure, but some words of warning might be in order.

 

 

Tim is giving respect to Jim by doing a small write up on him. I have read it and it is awesome. The NW climbing scene would be a different place had it not been for Jim. Jim…..you are the man. Thank you for 15 years of mentorship!

 

So you put Jim down and build him up all in the same post???????

 

KEVIN, YOU ARE A JACKASS. I SERIOUSLY REGRET EVER TAKING YOU CLIMBING.

 

JIM WAS THE ONE WHO TOOK YOU TO OZONE FOR THE FIRST TIME... HOW EASILY WE PEOPLE FORGET.

 

GROW UP DUDE!!!

[denalidave]

I suspect that despite what some folks think, Tims not putting FA info into the book.

 

Why? What is the logic behind this?

 

Last Saturday I looked at Freak Freely and it was way overgrown

 

 

 

 

Jim already has a climb he named at Dreamland called Freak Freely. That’s funny

 

 

One of these folks was 1/2 way up and expressing concern on one of the "lighter routes". This would have been easier on my mind if dude was a begineer, but it wasn't: it was someone who has done 2 different El Cap routes in a day and a bunch of badassed stuff like that. It makes me concerned for less experienced folks climbing 5.10 in the gym over the winter then buying Tims new guidebook and just heading out there in the spring and run up the 5.9s.

 

Climb at your own risk. I do believe Tim’s book has a warning of the danger area in the beginning of his book.

 

 

I am feeling a tad uncomfortable with that but don't know what to do. I had all these warning labels on the route list I was producing, but I understand those might be gone to be replaced with a homily to Jim. Well written homily for sure, but some words of warning might be in order.

 

 

Tim is giving respect to Jim by doing a small write up on him. I have read it and it is awesome. The NW climbing scene would be a different place had it not been for Jim. Jim…..you are the man. Thank you for 15 years of mentorship!

 

So you put Jim down and build him up all in the same post???????

 

KEVIN, YOU ARE A JACKASS. I SERIOUSLY REGRET EVER TAKING YOU CLIMBING.

 

JIM WAS THE ONE WHO TOOK YOU TO OZONE FOR THE FIRST TIME... HOW EASILY WE PEOPLE FORGET.

 

GROW UP DUDE!!!

"Whatever you do, don't eat the fish out of the Columbia River, they are radio active"...

[JosephH]

I thought is was mainly the Sturgeon...

[pink]

I suspect that despite what some folks think, Tims not putting FA info into the book.

 

Why? What is the logic behind this?

 

Last Saturday I looked at Freak Freely and it was way overgrown

 

 

 

 

Jim already has a climb he named at Dreamland called Freak Freely. That’s funny

 

 

One of these folks was 1/2 way up and expressing concern on one of the "lighter routes". This would have been easier on my mind if dude was a begineer, but it wasn't: it was someone who has done 2 different El Cap routes in a day and a bunch of badassed stuff like that. It makes me concerned for less experienced folks climbing 5.10 in the gym over the winter then buying Tims new guidebook and just heading out there in the spring and run up the 5.9s.

 

Climb at your own risk. I do believe Tim’s book has a warning of the danger area in the beginning of his book.

 

 

I am feeling a tad uncomfortable with that but don't know what to do. I had all these warning labels on the route list I was producing, but I understand those might be gone to be replaced with a homily to Jim. Well written homily for sure, but some words of warning might be in order.

 

 

Tim is giving respect to Jim by doing a small write up on him. I have read it and it is awesome. The NW climbing scene would be a different place had it not been for Jim. Jim…..you are the man. Thank you for 15 years of mentorship!

 

So you put Jim down and build him up all in the same post???????

 

KEVIN, YOU ARE A JACKASS. I SERIOUSLY REGRET EVER TAKING YOU CLIMBING.

 

JIM WAS THE ONE WHO TOOK YOU TO OZONE FOR THE FIRST TIME... HOW EASILY WE PEOPLE FORGET.

 

GROW UP DUDE!!!

"Whatever you do, don't eat the fish out of the Columbia River, they are radio active"...

 

too late

 

 

[crimper]

i think routes at the drop zone are fairly graded if you are on toprope. they aren't that physically demanding. not too steep or reachy, in general. the problem is that the gear can be tricky, especially if the cracks haven't been recently cleaned.

 

it's one of those crags where you are best off toproping and/or following a few routes, memorizing the key placements, then repeating the routes on lead and realizing that the gear is there, just not always when you want it.

 

and for the record, i threw in like 12 bolts on 6 routes precisely to keep my routes PG. most are 5.10, and the bolts protect the 5.10 parts. maybe some day bill will retro his own routes to keep them PG....or allow someone else to do the bolting...they're his routes, he can do what he wants with them....

[JosephH]

I dunno, I sure wouldn't want all routes to be PG. And pro gets 'tricky', challenging, and even marginal sometimes out in the 'real' world and that's just part of trad climbing. It would be boring as snot if all pro were obvious, simple to place, and always right where you want it; might as well just go sport climbing in that case. The whole point of trad climbing from my perspective is to be able to think and climb hard at the same time.

 

Could be this falls under the easier-to-say-than-to-do mantra of "keeping it real".

[powderhound]

I wish i could have bet that when this thread started all YOU would wet your panty's and get your sphincter so tight you would be clenched like vice for days. Lighten up. Have a beer. Go Sking. Go Climbing. Stop letting spray get you down.

 

 

[crimper]

i just want people to climb my routes and keep 'em clean for the rare occasions i get to climb outdoors these days! and i bolted 'em so i wouldn't worry about dying or breaking bones when i show up out of shape mentally and physically. and joe, you already told me there's not 1 bolt out of 12 that you could skip on my routes, so i know they aren't overbolted...(there's only 10 bolts until i replace the 2 that got chopped...maybe this winter...)

[ivan]

I wish i could have bet that when this thread started all YOU would wet your panty's and get your sphincter so tight you would be clenched like vice for days. Lighten up. Have a beer. Go Sking. Go Climbing. Stop letting spray get you down.

 

yup, that's been me the whole time!

 

sure does seem the right time to figure out that whole skiing thing...

[JosephH]

i just want people to climb my routes and keep 'em clean for the rare occasions i get to climb outdoors these days! and i bolted 'em so i wouldn't worry about dying or breaking bones when i show up out of shape mentally and physically. and joe, you already told me there's not 1 bolt out of 12 that you could skip on my routes, so i know they aren't overbolted...(there's only 10 bolts until i replace the 2 that got chopped...maybe this winter...)

Bryan, it's a matter of different personal priorities and perspectives. You put up your routes with yours; I put up mine with mine. I wouldn't say your routes are overbolted, though the one high bolt on the line left of TV isn't necessary given the good pro at that spot. But we talked about that and I understand how that one came about. My only real complaint about your routes is I wish you were shorter.

 

As for the not breaking bones when you're out of shape part, well hmmmm. Personally I just don't get on some routes until I'm back into sufficient shape to do them. Each spring I defer leads on HV and the Oracle and climb other things for quite awhile until I'm again up to dealing with them. Definitely wouldn't want to see either bolted so there were no consequences to getting on either unprepared. Or, as Mark Hudon said at the prospect of attempting to onsight the Oracle, "finally, something serious." or words to that effect. Different strokes...

[Lucky Larry]

it's come to my attention that some, shall i say, matters of delicacy have been broached and that some feelings of anger/disappointment/ego have been expressed. short wersion: you guys need to stop punching each other in the nuts and make-up with cover ghoul. long version: i don't know watt this is about(glad to say that I have not been following this thread) but please stop pissing down each others backs and turn off the gas--kaboom.

Edited November 20, 2010 by oldlarry

[Stewart]

Found a good article about blogging/forum ethics.

 

http://www.cyberjournalist.net/news/000215.php

 

It would be good for us to check in once and a while.

 

Stewart

[Lucky Larry]

thanks Stewart. just kinda thinking bout the same things. What makes a good debate, what makes an argument, and what makes a pissing contest. I never learned about the rules of debate but something pops into mind for some reason, I might be wrong--a debate/legit argument does not take the form of a personal attack--is this right? anyone up to moderating a forum where the participants follow,"Robert's Rules of Order is the short title of a book containing rules of order intended to be adopted as a parliamentary authority for use by a deliberative assembly."-wikipedia

 

 

[ols]

Yes, the First Ascent info will be in the upcoming edition of PRC.

[pink]

Yes, the First Ascent info will be in the upcoming edition of PRC.

 

 

who did the first ascent of stone rodeo mister?