Soloing on Rainier?

[Dane]

The Park service is looking for more data on soloing climbing in the Park, specifically summit attempts on Rainier. If you have any interest in soloing Rainier or have soloed Rainier in the past please fill out the poll. We as climbers have a rare opportunity here to help make a signifigant change on how the Park manages climbers. Please feel free to add your comments as well.

 

I suspect that many of the ski ascents are done unroped. If you have not roped up on a ski ascent or any ascent for that matter of Rainier please check the "I have soloed Rainier", and the "I soloed without a permit" box.

 

You can check as many boxes as apply to you.

[JBo6]

Dane is there a way to set it so we can see the poll results without voting, cuz none of those apply and I don't want to fuck up your survey.

[Dane]

Sorry I can't edit it. My mistake. I'll up date the numbers as I check back. 6/25 7am

 

Have you solo'ed Rainier 28

Have you solo'ed with a solo permit 14

Have you solo'ed without a permit 18

Do you avoid NPS staff 23

Have you applied for a solo permit 15

Have you been denied a permit 0

 

Ideally this poll could lead to some big changes in the solo permit sysytem @ Rainier so I hope those that ever want to solo or have already, will take the time to join the conversation.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

I assume marking that you've solo'ed but not marking that you solo'ed "with a solo permit" or "without a solo permit" means that you solo'ed but had a group permit (simul-solo). This may apply to some group ski outings as well. Hopefully that was your intent or I've f'ed things up for you.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

I assume marking that you've solo'ed but not marking that you solo'ed "with a solo permit" or "without a solo permit" means that you solo'ed but had a group permit (simul-solo). This may apply to some group ski outings as well. Hopefully that was your intent or I've f'ed things up for you.

[Dane]

Not terribly uncommon for a group not to rope up on some climbs, NPS no longer considers that "soloing".

 

 

Edited June 12, 2010 by Dane

[TMO]

Thanks for your efforts on this topic Dane.

 

I have applied once for a solo permit, about 6 or 7 years ago. It was actually approved in a timely fashion. Never did it though...

 

I am considering a "fly under the radar" ascent this year. Government bureaucracy bothers me.

 

Not exactly a solo but I always unrope when not on a glacier and not putting in pro. Liberty Ridge is a good example; rope for the carbon, Liberty Cap to the Summit and the descent.

[Dane]

TMO I had figured on doing the same thing this year after originally not getting a timely response from my email request. (although most everyone else had and now I have as well with a 2 day turn around)

 

Made me wonder what the situation was for the two soloists involved in the avalanche last week. As one for sure did not have a solo permit but by his father's account. "had climbed Rainier many times by all different routes". Although I try not to climb in obviously terrible snow conditions...that sounds way too close to home for me. How about you?

 

I have asked if the soloist skier had a solo permit and will know at some point.

 

The Chief Ranger on Rainier and all the Climbing Ranger staff wants to better the communication and better incorporate our needs as climbers into their system. I think this is a unique opportunity to make some signifigant changes for the better on access to the mountain.

[TMO]

That sounds very encouraging. Maybe I'll try submitting a request and see what happens.

 

 

[Dane]

I have been told the qickest way is via the email application..FWIW. Same day or next day return and approval is common.

[Dane]

I am so surprised that the NPS actually wants climber feed back that I am trying to take advantage of it and get a few of what I think might be improvments to the system. Suggestions are welcome or even better are your letters to the Park Service!

 

I had suspected a big percentage of the solo climbers on Rainier were doing so without a permit. Maybe 60% from the guys I know. But I am really surprised from the small amount of data we have been getting, the non permit solo climbers are dbl that of those with a permit and register with the park.

 

Even more interesting is 65% of the climbers who do solo avoid the NPS staff, doesn't matter if they registered or got a permit.

 

[bstach]

How about a selection for "Do you plan to solo Ranier"? Then i could vote.

 

For the record, I would be a good boy and attempt to get a permit and do it all legal. If I got denied a permit, i would probably go anyway if I figured I could avoid NPS staff, which it sounds like at current staffing levels I could.

[jshamster]

You will not get an accurate picture from some poll on cc.spray.

not only do a lot of folks not get permits/avoid NPS personnel, but they avoid the interwebs as well.

 

[ivan]

 

Even more interesting is 65% of the climbers who do solo avoid the NPS staff, doesn't matter if they registered or got a permit.

nothing good ever comes from hanging out w/ The Man

 

if some good does come of it, be damn sure to keep it off teh interwubs!

[toproper]

which routes do you recommend for soloing? It seems to me that as a soloist you would want to avoid the trade routes Emmonds and DC (unless possibly doing them in winter).

 

Are there routes better suited for solo climbs?

[bstach]

You could easily walk right by the ranger station at Shurman w/o being noticed. Just don't camp there.

[Dane]

which routes do you recommend for soloing? It seems to me that as a soloist you would want to avoid the trade routes Emmonds and DC (unless possibly doing them in winter).

 

Are there routes better suited for solo climbs?

 

Depends on why you solo. I suspect most of the Rainier solo climbs are just folks lacking a partner, wanting to do a quick ascent and not so much looking for the wilderness experience or technical challenge.

 

Most will solo DC as it is likely the safest, big holes not withstanding and more people on the route to pack down that cow path. The Emmons imo is much more dangerious because of the holes between Sherman and the upper mtn.

 

But there are no "safe" solo routes on Rainier any time of year.

 

A few will do other more technical routes for the adventure and experience. But it generally takes some skill and experience to get on them or off them or both safely. And that doesn't even take into account the climbing. Much bigger commitment mentally and physically than on DC.

 

Routes I'd recommend? Soloing on Rainier is a crap shoot...and seriously, a good way to die, cold, in a tiny little hole. I don't recommend it by any route.

 

Mt. St. Helens is a good solo as is the N Face of Chair in winter. Rainier not so much. YMMV

[jshamster]

which routes do you recommend for soloing? It seems to me that as a soloist you would want to avoid the trade routes Emmonds and DC (unless possibly doing them in winter).

 

Are there routes better suited for solo climbs?

I don't recommend it by any route.

 

 

 

so why do you even bother to get the permit?

why the f'ing crusade and endless speculation about soloing Rainier?

i really just don't get the endless soapbox preaching on this subject.

especially since it grew out of an unfortunate accident in which the solo permitting process had absolutely NO bearing on the cause or outcome of said accident.

 

didja just need a hobby? bored 'cause of the rain?

even had to take the cause to a bunch of california rock climbers, eh?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1191420/Soloing-on-Mt-Rainier

really thing they'll jump on yer bandwagon? maybe, maybe not.

 

it's great that you are in a constructive dialog with NPS, but the misinformation & speculation that you are spreading on cc.spray is getting absurd.

 

good luck with the crusade.

jimbo

[jshamster]

which routes do you recommend for soloing? It seems to me that as a soloist you would want to avoid the trade routes Emmonds and DC (unless possibly doing them in winter).

 

Are there routes better suited for solo climbs?

 

success cleaver is a good route to solo. no glaciers = no glacier gear. still gotta know mtns. though. far away from any rangers, so get a permit/don't get a permit. most important have fun and stay safe.

 

cheers

jimbo

[Dane]

Guess you missed my point Jimbo. I solo stuff all the time including Rainier. I just don't recommend soloing in general or Rainier in particular.

 

Why the crusade? Easily answered. I think the NPS solo permit system as it is now, simply doesn't serve the NPS or the climbing community. And I think that needs to be changed. Nothing new about that. The recent death of a soloist just pointed the issue out to the NPS with some clarity.

 

Your are right Success cleaver is "safer" than most Rainier routes.

"Safe" being a relative term. Easy to forget SC as I haven't climbed on that side of the mtn. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. But between DC and SC as a solo route...anytime of year, all things considered? I'd venture to say DC is the more safe option. But everyone gets an option

 

Success Clever is one of the longest climbs on a big mtn and no technical challange which might draw some. Awesome walk from Point Success to the summit though.

 

I am looking for real data so I have links back to this poll on 4 or 5 climbing forums including supertopo.

[chris]

Not terribly uncommon for a group not to rope up on some climbs, which I believe the NPS considers "soloing". Many ski trips never rope up for example, which is illegal on Rainier above 10K last I checked, but that was years ago. I've done trips where the conditions were good and we never roped up...also illegal and a "solo" trip.

 

So if you have done such things you have soloed without a permit

 

At least that is what I was told by a Park Ranger last time my partner and I got caught above 10K unroped. Lucky for us they didn't give us a ticket...only because we did have a rope in one of the packs

 

Dane, I believe your premise for the poll is incorrect and misleading. To my knowledge, skiing or climbing, without a rope above 10,000 is not "illegal". Please check the MRNP website - I cannot find any such requirement. As far as I'm aware, the park defines soloing as climbing without a partner, not climbing without a rope.

 

I encourage you to contact the Chief Climbing Ranger to answer this question, and let us know what you find. Thanks!

Chris

[Dane]

Chris I did ask just now and you are correct that policy is no longer in effect and hasn't been for a while.

 

First time I heard of that decision was climbing unroped as a party of 3 in the mid '80s. No question we were told it was illegal and we would be fined if we didn't rope up. We were at Cadaver Gap and coming down from a ropeless ascent.

 

We had a rope and did rope from there to Muir. But we were also told, "lucky for us we had a rope with us" or no question we would have been ticketed for climbing above 10K without being roped.

 

I think it goes back to many things NPS related on Rainier, from several locations on the NPS web site: "Required for all who plan to climb above 10,000 feet or onto any glaciers."

 

 

But thanks for questioning that....you were 100% correct. So much for that data being useful...

 

 

[ketch]

well in that case I need to change my votes. I have only soled without a permit until the law changed. If I am up there by the revised law I get the permit.

[TMO]

I applied for a solo permit via email on Friday afternoon. No word as of yet...

[TMO]

I recieved my approval over the weekend. A week and a day turn around time, not too bad...