REDBULL SUCKS COCK!

[glassgowkiss]

COCKSUCKERS!

[Bob G]

Err... Don't read spanish. Can you paraphrase?

[aussie69]

I thought redbull was supposed to give you wings not a vagina...

[chirp]

(quote=desnivel.com)

Implementing a project requires clean climbing film whose big media and the route is altered, explains Roland Garibotti Argentina, a serious ethical dilemma. This is your rating:

 

The big news in Patagonia this past season was not related to an ascent, but with the announcement of a project. Little is materialized as much publicity and that little was negative. While David Lama failed to release even a Metro New Compressor road on the spur southeast of Cerro Torre, his film crew composed of several chambers and mountain guides hired by Red Bull Austrians placed about 700 meters of fixed ropes to along the route and about 60 parabolts.

 

The ropes were removed several months later by Argentine guides, who could not with all and had to drop a backpack full of them in the bergschrund. A minor detail compared to parabolts.

 

The parabolts were placed in the first half of the track - between the bergschrund and cruise-where even Cesare Maestri in 1970 had drilled the rock despite its heavy load compressor. This section of the road there are many insurance options to place mobile or nails, and cracks abound everywhere. In the hundreds of repetitions that has been the way no one has had to add anything in that section. It is certainly curious that there parabolts need to add a route that already has more than 450 nails pressure.

 

In relation to the actions of the Red Bull team presents an ethical dilemma on the retrofitting of classic and historic routes.

 

I wonder what would happen if I visit Austria this summer and add dozens of parabolts in "Locker vom Hocker" of Gullich and Albert or in some way the famous Mathias Rebisch or Albert Precht, etcetera. And since Reinhold Messner himself helped promote this attempt to David Lama (see here ) may be appropriate which added dozens of parabolts the Middle Mall (Mittelpfeiler) in the Sasso della Croce (Heiligkreuzkopfel), in its historic path. It is curious that is it, in the 70 author of the famous article "The Murder of the Impossible" against the indiscriminate use of pressure spikes, who help promote the abuse of Red Bull and Lama.

 

Add parabolts an existing road not only contrary to the well-known unwritten ethics of mountaineering and climbing, but is also written in the famous Tyrol Declaration on Best Practice in Mountain Sports outcome of a meeting of mountaineers, climbers , clubs and federations in Innsbruck in 2002. In Article 8, paragraph 1, reads: "This means that climbers should not increase the number of fixed insurance on a pre-existing road." This statement has recently been updated with the so-called Declaration on Ethics in the Mountain to the International Mountaineering and Climbing Federation (UIAA) issued on Dec. 11 to mark the International Mountain Day. In Article 1 (individual responsibility) stated: "... Place anchors fixed on new and old ways can not be automatically assumed to be acceptable. " In Article 4 (foreign countries): "... We must respect the local style and ethics of climbing and fixed anchors drilled or put in places where traditional ethics against them, or where there is no established ethics. " In Article 8 (style): "... We should always try to leave no trace on the wall and in the mountains. "

 

In relation to the fixed lines worth reflecting on what the reaction would be if we neglected fixed lines for an entire summer in the "Pesce" of the Marmolada, or the "Philipp Flamm" of the Civetta, or the "American Direct" of the west of the Dru, or any other popular classical pathway of the Alps. Nobody likes climbing on fixed ropes, let alone in a way that from the eighties is done in alpine style.

In 1985 the Swiss Fulvio Mariani Cerro Torre filmed in one of the best mountain films ever made, "Summit," a documentary of the rise solitary Marco Pedrini. On that occasion not only did not put any bolt, but used only three fixed ropes. Years later, in 1990, the German Werner Herzog film "Schrei aus Stein" [Cry of Stone] also on Cerro Torre, and this time there was no need to add the path parabolts Maestri. Since then, as evidenced by the behavior of Lama and the people of Red Bull, seems to have been a significant regression.

Lama and Red Bull would have to explain how much impact justifies an attempt to document Ascent Lama himself saying he would be promoted in alpine style, clean, lightweight, with "fair play" and so on.

 

By Rolando Garibotti

 

Argentine climber, mountain guide in the U.S., is a regular and a great student of the history of climbing in Patagonia and a recognized analyst with numerous publications, for example, "Cerro Torre, its history and its ways" in No Difference 210. Among other activities, in 2005, together with Ermanno Salvaterra and Alessandro Beltrami drew "The ark of the winds" in the Cerro Torre, while in 2008 made the first crossing of the Tower along with Colin Haley. In Difference 287 (May 2010) published a chronicle of the most important event in Patagonia last season.

(/quote)

[JBo6]

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1181099&msg=1181099#msg1181099 Here is it in english.

[summitchaserCJB]

"Cesare Maestri, who made the first ascent in 1970, left an entire highway of bolts and pitons in the mountain’s south-east face, which has nothing to do with today’s climbing ethics. Still, it’s improbable that more than a dozen climbers would have reached Cerro Torre’s peak if it wasn’t for that bolt-trail." -David Lama

[summitchaserCJB]

To be fair, again David Lama:

"The current status is that the project is on hold until next year. The entire shoulder and wall have been cleaned, except for bolts used for the production which will definitely be removed after next years attempt. "

[dberdinka]

It's reminiscent of when the Adventure Race came to Darrington and they placed a shit ton of bolts on Blueberry Hill to rig jumar/rappel lines. Presumable these people are not "evil" or callous or totally indifferent.

 

I'd guess the perspective is probably something like "well climbers need their bolts for climbing and movie producers need there bolts for movie producing and adventure racers need their bolts for adventure racing"

[BillA]

Everyone involved with those shennanigans deserves a cock punch.

[billcoe]

Everyone involved with those shennanigans deserves a cock punch.

 

Now I'm definatly not clicking on any of Drews links. But this is more of the story from an outraged local. http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2337456;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

[glassgowkiss]

It's reminiscent of when the Adventure Race came to Darrington and they placed a shit ton of bolts on Blueberry Hill to rig jumar/rappel lines. Presumable these people are not "evil" or callous or totally indifferent.

 

I'd guess the perspective is probably something like "well climbers need their bolts for climbing and movie producers need there bolts for movie producing and adventure racers need their bolts for adventure racing"

I think there is quite a bit of difference in this case- placing 450 bolts on the biggest classic of the area is not on par with Blueberry Hill. It would be like doing to Yosemite and adding 450 bolts on the Nose to film someone trying to free it.

[Coldfinger]

David Lama:

 

WTF???? For one thing the holes you drilled WILL remain. For another you are now, and will forever be, our Maestri--famous for destroying, lying and poor style. Only you're worse, we turned away from that path YEARS ago.

 

BTW who else was on this trip? Seem to have found references to Corey Rich taking photos.

 

What you did cannot simply be undone, it was the attempt itself that is the crime. But you can always hit on Tonya Harding now, let us know when you start making pornos, seems like that's the only kind of film you're cut out for.

 

Edited May 29, 2010 by Coldfinger

[glassgowkiss]

I don't think Lama drilled the holes, it's Red Bullshit crew and the production company which should be blamed. I think in case of Lama it's more of a "guilt by association", which still carries pretty heavy burden in this case.

[glassgowkiss]

To be fair, again David Lama:

"The current status is that the project is on hold until next year. The entire shoulder and wall have been cleaned, except for bolts used for the production which will definitely be removed after next years attempt. "

To be fair- addition 450 bolts on a well established alpine climb on one of the most famous peaks is simply unacceptable. Imagine shit-fit that would happen if it was The Nose on ElCap.

OK, after reading this I changed my mind: David Lama is an arrogant sporto, who should eat shit and live.:

"From Redbull.com:

 

"Due to different statements and allegations published on diverse platforms regarding my project on Cerro Torre I would like to clarify several facts. I want to make sure that these discussions take place on the actual facts and on the way they occurred. I came to Patagonia together with my partner to attempt a freeclimbing ascent of the compressor route on Cerro Torre. A filmteam was with us to document the attempt. Every step made in Parque Nacional Los Glaciares and the Cero Torre by either my partner, myself or the accompanying production crew was executed in accordance with the rules and regulations as set out by the local mountain guides and the park administration; all necessary permits have been requested and granted. Due to bad weather and bad conditions we were forced to return home even earlier than planned. The danger of avalanches made it impossible for us to remove the fixed ropes and gear we had left on Col de la Patiencia before our departure. Therefore we engaged some pro guides to remove it for us, as soon as conditions would allow it. Constant communication with the local authorities during the project and the cleaning effort ensured that all standards were met and. if possible . surpassed. The current status is that the project is on hold until next year. The entire shoulder and wall have been cleaned, except for bolts used for the production which will definitely be removed after next years attempt. Personally, I don’t believe that we did anything wrong. In fact it was us to remove loads of old, ruined ropes and slings from the mountain which were left behind by others…I know a lot has been discussed about my project and a lot of false information has been spread. Therefore I kindly ask you to judge my project at its end. I’m looking forward to returning next season, Patagonia has impressed me more than anything that I have seen before. Regards, David"

Personally- if you don't think you did anything wrong you clown punching puff boy, i'd rather tie in on a rope with a donkey fucker then with you.

[Coldfinger]

I don't think Lama drilled the holes, it's Red Bullshit crew and the production company which should be blamed. I think in case of Lama it's more of a "guilt by association", which still carries pretty heavy burden in this case.

 

So who's the crew? I googled this and came up with credits for Corey Rich taking photos for that trip on Lama's website, but that doesn't mean he was part of the drilling or used the lines.

 

I wanna know who these buttpipes are!

 

As for Lama he is a little fucker, in his words:

 

"Cesare Maestri, who made the first ascent in 1970, left an entire highway of bolts and pitons in the mountain’s south-east face, which has nothing to do with today’s climbing ethics. "

 

"Daniel and I want to make it without any sort of aid, which means we only climb on the natural surface of the mountain – rocks and ice."

[Coldfinger]

It's reminiscent of when the Adventure Race came to Darrington and they placed a shit ton of bolts on Blueberry Hill to rig jumar/rappel lines. Presumable these people are not "evil" or callous or totally indifferent.

 

I'd guess the perspective is probably something like "well climbers need their bolts for climbing and movie producers need there bolts for movie producing and adventure racers need their bolts for adventure racing"

I think there is quite a bit of difference in this case- placing 450 bolts on the biggest classic of the area is not on par with Blueberry Hill. It would be like doing to Yosemite and adding 450 bolts on the Nose to film someone trying to free it.

 

To be fair it seems 60 bolts were added atop the 450 (Maestri by and large) that existed but these were placed in sections even Maestri didn't bolt.

[glassgowkiss]

It's reminiscent of when the Adventure Race came to Darrington and they placed a shit ton of bolts on Blueberry Hill to rig jumar/rappel lines. Presumable these people are not "evil" or callous or totally indifferent.

 

I'd guess the perspective is probably something like "well climbers need their bolts for climbing and movie producers need there bolts for movie producing and adventure racers need their bolts for adventure racing"

I think there is quite a bit of difference in this case- placing 450 bolts on the biggest classic of the area is not on par with Blueberry Hill. It would be like doing to Yosemite and adding 450 bolts on the Nose to film someone trying to free it.

 

To be fair it seems 60 bolts were added atop the 450 (Maestri by and large) that existed but these were placed in sections even Maestri didn't bolt.

OK, so in my fury I had my facts a bit mixed up, but let's not mention 700m of rope stretched on one of the most popular route of the area.

What really pisses me off is the attitude of the clownpuncher, who has a nerve to say, he did not do anything wrong.

[summitchaserCJB]

Dude glasko, if you're going to spray get the numbers right. It's 60 new bolts on top of 450 existing bolts. You can't blame Lama for the existing bolts. Cmon man.

[glassgowkiss]

Dude glasko, if you're going to spray get the numbers right. It's 60 new bolts on top of 450 existing bolts. You can't blame Lama for the existing bolts. Cmon man.

Like I said, mistake in numbers, but wonder what would happen if someone added 60 bolts on the Nose to do some stupid film. On the to of that 700m of static line was fixed and left hanging.

[Coldfinger]

And traipsed around with Messner--author of "murder of the Impossible"--before he left!

[summitchaserCJB]

Ya I know. Unfortunate all around for sure. I know many films have been done without the use of much additional gear.

[Coldfinger]

And without so much hypocrisy.

[Figger_Eight]

The Rape of a Mountain Part II

 

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10s/newswire-david-lama-compressor-bolts

[eldiente]

Will Gadd gets in on it.

http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2010/06/david-lama-red-bull-patagonia.html

 

That's an interesting post from a guy who gets his paycheck from Red Bull.

 

 

[hafilax]

Red Bull isn't going to be out there micro-managing all of these projects but it doesn't matter if they're directly responsible or not. You want to punish the kid and the guides you go after their bankroll: Red Bull.