Re. REI - Anybody notice? Anybody care?

[Yahoo_sucks]

REI is selling MSR.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/business/34210_rei07.shtml

Closed one of their stores in Japan, too. Been overspending the last few years?

[This message has been edited by bjorn (edited 08-07-2001).]

[Rodchester]

Just the market fixing itself....no big deal.

[verticalswamp]

Agggh, neoclassicism! Kill it kill it.

[erik]

is this good or bad? i personally think that is a good thing, the less r.e.&i has control over the outdoor industry the better. this company mass markets outdoor recreation cheaping it, to make a buck. funny how things like the their support of the deforest trail pass, their partnership with the american recreation cololation, and their closing of u.s. manufacturing of their goods, to move it to mexico, i don't remember a price drop once they reduced manufacturing costs. why is it always kept quite/backpage news. things such as these are a slap in the face of wilderness and americans.

buy our mexican made fleece coats, a deforest pass and rush to the wilderness. while we use your membership money to court polaris and other motorized enthusists.

hopefully they will close all their stores except new york! cause thats where their wilderness lies.

[Matt]

Hey Erik--

Do you know what you're talking about? Have you ever been to Japan? Climbed in Japan? Tried to navigate a 3 day weekend backpacking trip using a Japanese map? Climbed ice or rock trying to read Japanese characters? Do you know how much gear costs in Japan?

I am ignorant when it comes to understanding REI's domestic influence on land use policy, but I do know that as a company they make a terrific product, in some cases superior to what can be found on the Japanese market.

I think it is very popular for Americans and citizens of developed western countries to be opposed to globalization, but making fleece in Mexico and opening a store in Japan are apples and oranges.

It is good for America to have stores like REI branching out into foreign countries.

The only reason the REI store closed in Japan is because, if you hadn't heard, Japan is suffering through one of it's worst reccessions. The poor Japanese economy threatens to pull down the rest of the world. Our strong U.S. Dollar compounds this problem. REI's failure is not something to celebrate.

I was living in Japan when the REI opened and was marginally involved with the opening. I thought it was a great store, something Americans and Washingtonians could be proud of. Now its just another cautionary tale about the hubris of American businessmen and their inability to crack the mistique of the Japanese market.

I know that in the end it's all just stuff and things are meaningless; it's people and ideas that are important. Please don't be against it just because it's big and powerful.

In the entropic sea of confusion that permeates urban Japan I found REI to be an island of sanity and familiarity.

 

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

Matt,

All I gather is that you are spraying that you were in Japan...

[erik]

notice, i said nothing about japan. so i don't even know/care that it was good for you.

all i said are issues that affect me. japan doesn't. i am selling all my stock and moving to the family property in idado, since their reccession is going to destroy the world as we know it. thanks for the tip!

[Christopher]

My favorite part of REI is I can abuse my gear for a year..return it for something new and improved at full dollar amount....they were a nice little shop on Capital Hill before they sold thier soles for profit...they might as well strike a deal with Disneyland when it comes to land management policies!!! Furthermore they have a commodity business model when it comes to REI Brand name gear...they copy thier Vendors cutting edge product..outsource to Mexico and sell it as their own design...thier Executives are the Saviest Mountaineers I ever voted into ofice!!! The old guy from West Seattle who started REI must be turning over in his grave now....I have a suggestion for REI....a new marketing sound bite...REI the Nordstom of Mountaineering!!! Fortunately we have Jim in the U-dist and Feartherd Friends close by to get the real gear!!! Thats my 2 cents....as I child I really liked the Capital Hill Shop...had to park near Dicks, get a burger and walk over the the Old REI...now the new store is replica of Magic Mountain that sells backcountry toys..and World Craps...sorry...World Wrapps that is!!!! Cheers!!!

[erik]

i know everyone will hate me for this one. buying goods and using them and then returning them for profit/new stuff is against moral standards and possibly the law, in my book you are no better then a thief. the return policy is not there for people to wreck shit purposefully and then return it with the intent to get new stuff. just take responsibilty and buy new shit. stuff wears out if you use it, and that is a fact. deal with it! i wonder if your mom, knows you do that shit.......plz

[mikeadam]

While people are plugging...Don't forget Pro Ski Service in North Bend and Seattle for ski, ski mountaineering, climbing gear, repairs, mounts, and free sound advice. Support your local merchants! http://proguiding.com

REI=Returnable Equipment Inventory

[Yossarian]

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

this company mass markets outdoor recreation cheaping it, to make a buck.

---

What an outrage!!! A company trying to sell its product to a large number of people by undercutting their competitors in order to make a profit.

This is business boys. The number one priority of a company is to make money. If some of their actions upset you, stand by your guns and don't ever shop there. While I agree shops like PMS and FF are more knowledgable, I often shop (like many of you, I assume) at REI because they often have lower prices and a good return policy.

In terms of manufacturing in Mexico, REI still makes many products in the USA including carabiners.

And no, I don't wear a green vest to work, just a fan of capitalism.

 

 

[mikeadam]

REI-Large corporate sytle chains...They will not bargain.

Many of the owner operated shops will strike a good deal with the customer negating the value of the dividend, or even match prices.

I say this from the perspective that my average REI dividend is around 200.00 a year. I still buy many items of equipment from local merchants as suits my needs.

It's all good I think.

[Dru]

MEC is run as a non-profit co-op. REI is run as a for-profit co-op?? Hence the Incorporated in their name?

[Yossarian]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

MEC is run as a non-profit co-op. REI is run as a for-profit co-op?? Hence the Incorporated in their name?

---

All co-op's are for profit, why would one be formed otherwise?. They either return the profits to the members or re-invest them back in the company. There are no shareholders nor owners, just members.

 

[David_Parker]

I admit, I shop at REI. Not ALL my gear comes from there. I like the prices and they have more selection for my kid. But I also like the Mt. Constance Shoppe in Bremertion. They know customer service. Sometimes I feel like a walking catalogue for LL Bean. They invented customer service. But, hey, I'm from Maine and I guess I still have loyalties. I'm totally with Eric on the abuse the return policy which by the way was introduced by LL Bean, NOT Nordstrom! I've personally seen this policy so abused it makes me puke. A person dies and family members clean out a life times collection of LL labels and return it. People shop thrift stores and garage sales and return stuff. It's your own mountain karma if you wear something out through use and abuse and justify returning it in your own mind. But there are also time when things DO wear out or self destruct prematurely and then I'm glad I bought it where there are no questions asked. Surprisingly though, there are smaller stores too that offer the same policy. Unfortunately, they suffer a much higher percentage of lost capital when people abuse the system. So in my opinion, if you don't like REI being the Costco of outdoor gear, shop the smaller stores but DO NOT ABUSE the system so they don't go out of business! That indirectly supports the REI's!

I love to check out gear in stores from Italy to New Hampshire. If I'm climbing out of my area, I have found by actually buying something locally in the town I'm in, you might meet someone who opens up a little and the next thing you know you get some good beta on where the good stuff is.

My $.02

[terrible_ted]

MSR is probably the most useful piece of climbing gear that REI has sold in years...

 

I always like the part of their corporate mythos that goes: "It all started with an ice axe..."

You ever count how many different ice axes they sell now? Last I was in the hikeytown cathedral, it was two. Now I think they're up to three. (Axes, not tools) That same trip, they had no Arc'Teryx Khamsin packs, and no point protectors for crampons ("Uh, it says we have three in inventory, but I think they used them in the window displays.")

I was so happy to give Jim my money for the same items. I always look to ProMountain and Cascade Crags first, and mail order (Barrabees ROCKS!!!) second.

Great place to take the elderly relatives clothes shopping for the holidays, however..

-t

 

[Jman]

I think, though, that Cascade Designs is an excellent company. When I had some technical questions about sleeping pads, I tried calling and emailing REI. They contacted CC. In the meantime, I called CC and they routed my questions to several people. Eventually I had Pete Frickland, Director of Product Development, email me personally and cc several other key people at REI with answers, actual test result data, and other helpful information. He seemed like a great guy.

I guess my point is, that to them I could be considered a "nobody". But they treated me very kindly and bent over backwards to help answer my questions. Wouldn't everybody want that kind of customer service?

So all in all I think MSR will do fine as part of Cascade Designs.

[willstrickland]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yossarian:

The number one priority of a company is to make money. If some of their actions upset you, stand by your guns and don't ever shop there.

---

And therein lies the problem...because their #1 priority (global giants in general) is profit, not "responsible profit", or "socially and environmentally conscious profit" but "profit above all else" we all suffer. The Exxons, Wal Marts, Mcdonalds, and Phillip Morris's of the world dominate the markets by controlling the media and undercutting the market using economy of scale tactics. They even make you happy to have their inferior goods with superior psychologically based marketing tactics. I don't oppose capitalism, I support human-scale operations and try my damndest to support my local, small, private businesses.

REI prices are beside the point because if you know what you want, you can easily get it cheaper than REI. Just my $1.31

 

[Beck]

REI sure has come a long way, baby! much too the ire of many longtime customers-

Whispers say the REI Board and planners based their continued expansion on unrealistic growth projections- (wow, does that sound like THE business anthem of the last 7-8 years?) that couldn't, wouldn't , didn't get met. Maybe they were having lunches with Jeff Bezos!

 

I wonder how much capital they BLEW on internet related side of REI's growth and expanding into "new" markets like midwest towns and Japan.

Become a member of MEC, look at these prices- Malden Mills Powershield jackets for $170 Canadian, a lot of other things are cheaper , too! and they appear to have a high degree of environmental responsibility.

[Christopher]

Erick-

The Mountain Karma has crossed my mind a few times...and yes I would not want my Mother to know I did this terrible act...but the facts are and if you look at their REI Brand name gear...it looks very similar to what was cutting edge the year before....ex: see thier Jackets and pants...they all look like Arcteryx or Marmot from two years ago...and the price is usually $100 less....get my drift....I'm in no way going to burn my REI memebership card...but for the big, save my life gear...I stick with Jim and FF...atleast when you ask Jim a question...he can ansewer you with a straight face...not like the summer interns at REI...granted their are a few climbers at REI...also...More about the Karma thing....I believe it what goes around comes around...

[Dru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beck:

Become a member of MEC, look at these prices- Malden Mills Powershield jackets for $170 Canadian, a lot of other things are cheaper , too! and they appear to have a high degree of environmental responsibility.

---

 

The quality control on those jackets is (compared to Arcteryx version) pretty bad though. Lots of the ones hanging on the racks have lots of dangling threads and other minorly annoying flaws that would get them tossed in the seconds bin atArcteryx. But for $170 it is hard to complain...

 

[hikerwa]

I think that REI is good for some stuff, I had a little problem with the shank (yes the shank, steel even) breaking in my older leather mountaineering boots. I paid full price for them, REI ended up reimbursing me for the boots. I really didn't want the money, I just wanted boots so I went back and bought another pair of boots and I was happy. I still shop mainly at mountaingear, they rock.

anyway just my nickel (and at REI Iget 15% back)

[Yahoo_sucks]

Gotta tell you I've had a couple of embarassing situations at REI. I went in there recently and asked the guy in the green vest in the sleeping bag section "Where are the bivy bags?" His answer: "What's a bivy bag?" He was serious. I couldn't beleive it.

Another time I asked someone at the hardware counter a question. The guy working there hadn't heard of Kong climbing hardware.

I usually don't ask them questions anyway. I just go there to buy something that I already have in mind and get out. But if someone else has it cheaper, I'm there.

[Yahoo_sucks]

Oh yeah, back to the topic - I've been wondering how long they could turn a profit with all of their spending on that flagship store, new stores in the middle of nowhere, etc. I guessed that that monument to themselves would lose it's attraction in a few months....

[crazyjizzy]

I went into REI to buy a fanny pack for my ex old lady, and the dude told me that fanny packs go in the front, and lumbar packs go over your rear. I corrected him that a lumbar pack is a expensive fanny pack, and fanny means "ass". He told me that my use of the word ass offended him. I told him that was possibily because he was a dumb ass.

Fuck REI.