billcoe Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'd say that is a bit, to borrow a term, regressive. 200 foot raps are conveniant. If you think there is no place in climbing for conveience, so be it. But I liked the raps. Just thought the spacing was wacko. I'm shutting up before I start sounding like Dwayner, but there doesn't need to be any rap points on that face, there is a walk off. For over 50 years thousand and thousands of climbers climbed it without the bolts just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 If you say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankazoid Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 If the walk offs were forested slopes holding the soil and shit together that would be one thing. BUT theyre not! Its a f'kn gravel sand mess coming off almost every route. I would go as "far" as to say it's bad fkn style to not make routes rappable, with the type of slopes these areas have. -Whether it was 50 years, or 2 years ago that a route was put up! People are way too f'n caught up with "ohh it was traditionaly done this way" "so you cant change shit on the route, because its sooo classic" "dont replace that fkd up pin with a new bolt at the crux cause that thing is from the FA and it makes it more classic". all that kinda bullshit. is bullshit. if something can be improved, fuckin improve it- whether its the rock, trail, or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I luv u too Rudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuzka1 Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 Totally agree if it makes less of an impact by rapping a route then yes rap bolts are justified. or build a trail which you can stay on. as far as replacing a manky pin on a established route i doubt you would get any complaints from anyone, now adding bolts to a established route thats bogus, but theres no law against it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaoleung Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'm all for bolting if it makes stuff safer or reduces environmental impact, but please figure out how to do the job right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 who knows of a bolted hand crack in Washington State? This is a fun little topic to waste a little time on, but I'm done now. Too bad you are done. Grape Ape...easy 5.8 hand crack at Dishman, Spokane WA....30 year old 5.8 trad route....bolted/chopped and rebolted with twice the number of bolts. One every 6 feet last I looked. 6 in this 30' or less of rock with a perfect crack right beside them. Oh and Air Roof didn't "need" a set of fixed anchors. Gear worked just fine there for YEARs. Hate to actually have to climb the crack, clean it and then walk down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuzka1 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I'm all for bolting if it makes stuff safer safer? thats a little part of climbings allure, the unknown, to figure out the how and why. bombproof saftey is for golf and pingpong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 bombproof saftey is for golf and pingpong tell that to the guy who had a heart attack and crashed his golf cart into the river and drowned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Seriously I doubt the anchors were put there to aid descent, more likely just to make TRing Pumpline simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuzka1 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 true enough on the golf but the same responce as to simpler as to safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 there is somethign very familiar about this conversation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukuzka1 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 yes, its hard to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I doubt anyone will start bolting next to cracks. It's like a paranoia....ooooo bolts nexts to cracks...who knows of a bolted hand crack in Washington State? Actually, it has happened. Probably quite a bit. The Country at Index is somewhat notorious for it: Angora Grotto Cunning Stunt Climax Control All these have been lead with just gear, rather safely, and Angora Grotto is a straight-up hand crack. I think it was all Collum's work, so that he wouldn't have to carry a rack. Are there more? Probably. But some form of precedent was set, and even though Cunning Stunt has been chopped, rightfully so, a few times, the bolts keep coming back. Anyone know about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I doubt anyone will start bolting next to cracks. It's like a paranoia....ooooo bolts nexts to cracks...who knows of a bolted hand crack in Washington State? Actually, it has happened. Probably quite a bit. The Country at Index is somewhat notorious for it: Angora Grotto Cunning Stunt Climax Control All these have been lead with just gear, rather safely, and Angora Grotto is a straight-up hand crack. I think it was all Collum's work, so that he wouldn't have to carry a rack. Are there more? Probably. But some form of precedent was set, and even though Cunning Stunt has been chopped, rightfully so, a few times, the bolts keep coming back. Anyone know about this? Climax control has been lead on gear? Coming in from Cunning Stunt? Doesn't matter, but if i remember thats pretty bold. All the routes you mentioned above should be chopped in my book....but leave the anchors..ha..ha..ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 actually it protects pretty well straight up. i didn't have the right size for the opening flake moves, so that was kinda yikes, but it protected well through the crux. above crux, no more gear so that was kinda run-out, albeit on significantly easier climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I doubt anyone will start bolting next to cracks. It's like a paranoia....ooooo bolts nexts to cracks...who knows of a bolted hand crack in Washington State? Actually, it has happened. Probably quite a bit. The Country at Index is somewhat notorious for it: Angora Grotto Cunning Stunt Climax Control All these have been lead with just gear, rather safely, and Angora Grotto is a straight-up hand crack. I think it was all Collum's work, so that he wouldn't have to carry a rack. Are there more? Probably. But some form of precedent was set, and even though Cunning Stunt has been chopped, rightfully so, a few times, the bolts keep coming back. Anyone know about this? Add Black Cat Bone up at the Blues Cliff to the list. Kinda detracts the quality for me as I was unable to put gear in where I wanted to and pushed it to funkier stances to clip the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 actually it protects pretty well straight up. i didn't have the right size for the opening flake moves, so that was kinda yikes, but it protected well through the crux. above crux, no more gear so that was kinda run-out, albeit on significantly easier climbing. Respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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