billcoe Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Not with this cock in your backyard: Hows that for a massive page top that sort of pops right up at ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Good advice Bill, but I don't see a road trip in my near future. Wish it were otherwise... my problem as well - for us sad-sack family-types w/ a buncha young kids, we only get to play vertical-limit a couple hours a week, and beacon suuuuure scratches that itch - ozone, farside, broughtons are all okay, but don't feel like adventure at all. smiff and pts farther off are awesome, but might as well be in inner mongolia most weekends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Good advice Bill, but I don't see a road trip in my near future. Wish it were otherwise... my problem as well - for us sad-sack family-types w/ a buncha young kids, we only get to play vertical-limit a couple hours a week, and beacon suuuuure scratches that itch - ozone, farside, broughtons are all okay, but don't feel like adventure at all. smiff and pts farther off are awesome, but might as well be in inner mongolia most weekends. I know, there is no substitute. Even a giant rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 if only the gorge walls weren't made out of semi-petrified dinosaur turds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 We don’t want the birds to nest at Beacon. This point may be the difference between you and the rest of the climbers at Beacon. Missed this one. Yes, this in every way is a point of difference between us - I can't imagine climbing at Beacon without the Peregrines out there as well. Beacon is the Pergrines and vice versa and they nested there for an eternity before they were nearly driven to extinction. The very statement "we don't want the birds to nest at Beacon" says it all for me - it's the essence of why you, Jim and others were and are as much of an obstacle to sanely dealing with this issue as you are. Under no circumstance would I ever not want the birds to nest at Beacon. I might wish they nested elsewhere on Beacon, but that's up to them, not us. Count me with Peregrines over you every single time in this respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 i love raptors but for whatever reason i find peregrines boring - too small and bitchy looking - kestrels are cool as tiny raptors, ospreys are incredible to watch hunt and red-tails generally kick ass in their giant obquity- peregrines are like goddamn chinamen it is cooling seeing birds of every sort at beacon - i imagine i'd be a little bummed if the p's were gone, but i'm sure i'd be able to find a way to console meself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 We don’t want the birds to nest at Beacon. This point may be the difference between you and the rest of the climbers at Beacon. Missed this one. Yes, this in every way is a point of difference between us - I can't imagine climbing at Beacon without the Peregrines out there as well. Beacon is the Pergrines and vice versa and they nested there for an eternity before they were nearly driven to extinction. The very statement "we don't want the birds to nest at Beacon" says it all for me - it's the essence of why you, Jim and others were and are as much of an obstacle to sanely dealing with this issue as you are. Under no circumstance would I ever not want the birds to nest at Beacon. I might wish they nested elsewhere on Beacon, but that's up to them, not us. Count me with Peregrines over you every single time in this respect. WOW. Let your true colors shine why don’t ya? Joseph, I have a question for you. If you could have no birds at all and year round climbing, or birds with the current closure set up, which would you prefer? Although I think you have already answered this, I would like to add; that Joseph’s first and foremost concern is the birds, NOT THE CLIMBING. Therefore, JH is not the person to head up ANY KIND OF relationship with the powers that be to get anything done. You are like congress; you are working both sides of the isle and will accomplish nothing. You say you are working toward getting the closure lifted yet at the same time help out the rangers with nest duties that they could not do on their own. Why? Because you love the birds more than the climbing, and there is nothing wrong with that other than you are not the guy behind the guy behind the guy for the job at Beacon. I would rather see no birds at all and have year round climbing than a forced 6 month break. I love Peregrine Falcons. I just love climbing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Joseph on this one, our hobby is not the most important thing in the world. Bird closures, especially ones based on observation (like in the Tieton area) and what the birds actually do, are a fact of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Joseph on this one, our hobby is not the most important thing in the world. Bird closures, especially ones based on observation (like in the Tieton area) and what the birds actually do, are a fact of life. i think everyone here would agree with that statement.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Joseph on this one, our hobby is not the most important thing in the world. Bird closures, especially ones based on observation (like in the Tieton area) and what the birds actually do, are a fact of life. i think everyone here would agree with that statement.... I agree with that statement as well. I just don’t see how it is relevant to the topic at hand or Beacon Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Joseph on this one, our hobby is not the most important thing in the world. Bird closures, especially ones based on observation (like in the Tieton area) and what the birds actually do, are a fact of life. i can see what everyone is saying here, but OW i do not consider what i do a hobby, as though i am putting together model planes or collecting baseball cards or stamps, and i'm sure tha tyou didn't mean it that way either, but it is that kind of talk that makes what we love to do [as climbers] seem insignificant to the agencies involved in setting a closure period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I like the birds too, but have had plenty of good days climbing and not notice them at all. They can have big ledge during the nesting season, but if the original closure plan allowed for some lower pitches on the east & se side to remain open, that option should be looked at again. As I understand it, the old guard poo-pooied the idea of any closure and turned down the option of the first 2 pitches of the corner & YW with an all or nothing attitude. If the bird experts concluded it was ok back then, no reason it can't be ok now. The BRSP saying they don't have the man power to monitor the routes is total BS, since we climbers pay taxes and it is our park too. Sure, if the climbers hinder the birds, fine, close it. I've offered to assist JH, not just this year but also last year. So far, he does not seem to need any help, although he keeps asking who is going to "step-up". I'm stepping up and over JH if that's what is needed to have our collective voices heard. We CAN change the status if we are willing to do the work and be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 WOW. Let your true colors shine why don’t ya? Quite the reverse - "We don’t want the birds to nest at Beacon" - it's you who's just let your true colors shine. Climbers or Peregrines? Way to make that decision easy, dude. And hey, we don't need no stinking Salmon in the river, neither - plenty of damn rivers around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 WOW. Let your true colors shine why don’t ya? Quite the reverse - "We don’t want the birds to nest at Beacon" - it's you who's just let your true colors shine. Climbers or Peregrines? Way to make that decision easy, dude. And hey, we don't need no stinking Salmon in the river, neither - plenty of damn rivers around. i didnt know they closed the river when salmon are nesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 There are all sorts of closures and limits on the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 There are all sorts of closures on the river. let me gurgle it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I've offered to assist JH, not just this year but also last year. So far, he does not seem to need any help, although he keeps asking who is going to "step-up". You want to monitor this year, great, you and Kenny are there all the time, all you have to do is put in the time to learn. But, "Stepping up" at Beacon means a lot of things - first and foremost among them is stepping outside our own little world and needs and taking a stab at understanding the broader context in which we climb. That means learning the history, the regs, the roles and claims the various stakeholders have over the rock, and actually establishing relationships with the folks who represent those agencies. The idea that Beacon locals can completely ignore all that and simply come out with our sudden righteous indignation and single-minded point of view every year lacks credibility in every way. If the bird experts concluded it was ok back then, no reason it can't be ok now. The WDFW and BRSP agreed to a trial of the concept, which was rejected. That trial offer was based on trust. Subsequent closure breaches in every succeed year since has made the point pretty moot. Could it be ressurected? Unlikely, but who knows. But certainly not in an evironment where climbers consistently maintain an advesarial us vs. them attitude and approach to all things Beacon and have no relationship of any kind with the human beings who manage Beacon on behalf of their agencies. The BRSP saying they don't have the man power to monitor the routes is total BS, since we climbers pay taxes and it is our park too. This is exactly the attitude and approach I'm talking about - zero understanding or interest in bothering to figure out how the other folks involved live or what they deal with. Have you bothered to find out anything about the staffing, budget, workload, or resources those guys deal with? Do you have any idea what running and maintaining the park entails? Those guys are basically fucked up the ass every year by us "taxpayers" to the tune of half the budget and resources they need to do their jobs - they all personally step up and make up the difference as best they can where they can. I'm stepping up and over JH if that's what is needed to have our collective voices heard. We CAN change the status if we are willing to do the work and be heard. Step anywhere you like, but you'll change nothing - especially the closure - if the only voice you "hear" is your own and the echo at the base of the SE Corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 so jh, why don't u post ur monitoring sessions on here like the beacon update thread? that shit is public domain right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 can this fucking thread get moved to fucking spray already?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 so jh, why don't u post ur monitoring sessions on here like the beacon update thread? that shit is public domain right? Are you, or is anyone else, particularly interested? I'd be happy to. I quit doing a Beacon Update thread by popular demand. Saw the Peregrines two of the three days I was out last week, but wasn't monitoring then. I'd normally start monitoring around the third week of February but this winter has been pretty warm so will probably start this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvallisclimb Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 This closure is good for you guys... mabey you can try climbing somewhere else for once! I get sick of climbing at Smith and its 100 times as big. As for Joseph he loves Beacon and I'm 100% positive hes spent more time than any of you spray lords trying to do good things for BRSP. So get the fuck over it! Soon enough you guys can get back to your grassy ledge land of the little people se corner young warriors aid climbing jack off fest portaledge party 80ft off the deck gangbangs. Or "sleep over" or what ever the fuck you have to tell your wives to escape the grim reality of living in the metro area. :fahq: :ass: P.S. this shit is too funny I mean really bitching about the trail being closed like its the end of all world can you not go a fucking day with out jacking off at the base of se cunt? every year they close 75% of the menagerie wilderness due to a pair of peregrines who nest one one rock yet 2000 acres of land are closed. no one fucking climbs there anyways... what do i do, nothing i never bitch on here about how my life is over how fucked the FS is and belive me there managment plan for the peregrines in the menagerie is 20 times more fucked up than what you guys are dealing with. bitching on here is not going to change shit. neither is being a whiney ass climber complaining about shit like this. ya its fucked but its the man, these are damn hard things to change. but be fucking greatful for guys like Joseph who step it up with out him beacon might wind up like the menagerie closed every year till aug 1st with no chance of early opening. go climb, go help beacon, but for fucks sake give up the bitch fest. you guys remind me of the stupid ass dogs who spend all day chasing there tail getting absolutly no where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 you are a friend, joe, and i wish that you could recognize that and work for WHAT YOUR FRIENDS are actually asking for, rather than for what the rangers and, yes my agency, are telling you is policy. Kenny, I appreciate that. As I've said repeatedly, I'm pretty selfish relative to my interest in climbing. What remains of my last couple of productive climbing years is focused on Beacon and to that end I want every possible climbing day I can get out there. I cut from the whining and bullshit in 2005 exactly to insure that. Given the backlash, at this point I'm not operating on anyone's behalf or bidding except my own - not you guys, not the BRSP, and not the WDFW. Absolutely no one likes the closure less than I do or finds it any more intolerable - no one, not a single one of you guys. If there were any way to eliminate it I would have already been on it. The possibility of resizing it was pretty well fucked the last go around - particularly with no existing working relationship with WDFW. I've worked every possible avenue to restart early opens (which weren't happening after Andrew left) and to establish working relationships with BRSP and WDFW folks to earn enough trust to be able to discuss these matters with them and be taken seriously. I've done that by personally investing time, energy, and cash to unequivocally show vesting in Beacon and in building relationships built on trust. That last one is a big deal - it's utterly pointless to attempt to establish a working relationship with folks and then relentlessly talk shit about them behind their backs. Doesn't work. I've been working on those relationships since 2005 and only in the last couple of years started to be trusted at my word and taken at least somewhat seriously. Could I do better all the way around? Sure, but as Andrew points out I generally suck at dealing with people, but at least I've been making an honest and informed effort at it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 ...you guys remind me of the stupid ass dogs who spend all day chasing there tail getting absolutly no where. Funny, did this two years ago but never posted it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 can this fucking thread get moved to fucking spray already?? pretty sure from the outset that the beatard forum was intended to a be a spray-shield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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