Beacon poll?

[Dane]

OK lets cut the shit. Let's see who really cowboy's up here.

 

First question is if you happen to plop into a crevasse on Hood or take a tumble and can't walk out do you want a beacon or not?

 

Second question is if your buddy and his partner both fall into a crevasse or take a major slide and can't get themselves out do you want them to have a beacon?

[Ryan Canfield]

i have one, my buddy has one - but there shouldn't be any law that tells you that you need one. i do think they're a good thing to have though.

[Alpinfox]

THIS THREAD IS AWESOME!

 

 

 

 

[genepires]

I suppose you mean MLU when referring to a beacon. When I hear beacon, I think avalanche transeiver.

 

your question is interesting but unrealistic and silly logic question. Your "if then" question starts with a given negative situation so of course the reasonable answer is to own a location device for both. But this assumes that the next outing will have a negative situation guaranteed. (why would you go if it was certain you would get fucked up?) Maybe for some people with special needs this may be true, but far from realistic for even the most bumbly neewbie. So is this poll just for spray sake?

 

 

Maybe a better way to phrase it is do want one in case a situation happens or would you buy one for your friend/spouse/child if they pursue outdoor recreation pursuits?

[Alpinfox]

 

 

[Alpinfox]

If this shark was about to bite down on your footsie, would you prefer the guvmint to pass a law that everyone should wear metal boots?

 

 

{} DUUUUUUHHHHH

{} DRRRRRRRRRRR

 

Please select only two

 

 

[sparverius]

Having bacon in a crevasse is a little extravagant. But there was that guy that pulled out two whoppers on Liberty Ridge a few years ago.

[Dane]

"Beacon" as in something that would give an accurate and readable GPS location to others when required to do so. Not the current Mt Hood variety or much else available commercially right now.

 

We all know just how spotty cell phone coverage is in the mtns.

Suggesting a GPS and a cell phone is one idea I KNOW won't work most of the time in the Cascades or Rockies.

 

Who would need a beacon unless you started with a negative supposition Gene?

 

What I find silly is not finding people lost on Mt Hood.

 

I was a pro patroler when the first Pieps came out. Not the most accurate or useful tool at first for finding someone. Besides being REALLY expensive. A clue, a shovel, a probe and a buddy watching what you were doing was at the very least a equal back then. Now avi transcievers are standard gear for anyone with a clue and out in winter. Easy to work and accurate in actual use.

 

Sure the poll is silly....which is my point....as a group disssing the idea of a 'useful" beacon isn't silly it is just stupid. Same reason sat phones and Spots get taken to the big mtns.

 

Come on guys get over the government regulation thing and think about how a useful beacon with current technology might benefit us all. The reoccuring Hood tragedies are just a neon sign still flashing. You don't have to vote for big brother to slap you along side the head to realise we could all use something cheap and easy to use if it is reliable.

 

The idea needs to start somewhere. Better us, than Oregon State mandating old technology junk that doesn't work as required.

 

[olyclimber]

Having bacon in a crevasse is a little extravagant. But there was that guy that pulled out two whoppers on Liberty Ridge a few years ago.

 

thank you for making that connection. i needed a laugh.

[Alpinfox]

 

 

[Dane]

Shit Fox, you couldn't even finish Drury because it got dark....ya pussy Glad you got home safe, must have been scary up in those BIG, DARK mountains! You can buy or rent a beacon or a head lamp for that matter. You'll need to grow a sac.

 

Glad we can relagate the discussion to spray now.

[Alpinfox]

 

you are a dicknuckle

[Rad]

Yes, this thread should go to the bacon forum. I don't own a locator. Most of the climbing I do is on rocks when the weather is nice. Maybe someday I'll get something, but I'm not ready yet.

 

Mr. Fox, you are acting a lot like Pope in the bolt threads. We know your vote. Let it rest.

 

Dane, your post has some interesting points, but no one saw where these kids went so not finding them is hardly surprising. Multiple fly-bys revealed nothing.

 

Finally, if Mother Nature wants to flatten you she will, MLU or no MLU. There are plenty of situations where a strong multi-day storm will prevent anyone from coming to the rescue. In the 2006 Hood nail-biter, it was a solid week before there was a window long enough for rescuers to zip up and inspect the cave where the poor stranded gent took refuge. Even then, avalanche danger was extreme. In the 1996 Into Thin Air disaster, Rob Hall had a radio on the summit of Everest, and everyone knew exactly where he was. No one could go get him due to the altitude and stormy weather.

[Frikadeller]

The thing I see is at two points. I carry a Tracker DTS beacon. But, that is not the same as those Dane is suggesting. The thing with all avy beacons is that they transmit the entire they are on, regardless if you are alert, concious, or not. That is not true with PLB or EPIRB. Or even the MLU. Those you have to actually activate. And with the MLU, it's useless if SAR is not aware that you are lost, hurt, etc.

 

I don't see how that would help those climbers that are in peril at this moment on hoodie.

 

And, I am all against making it the law that I have to carry it

[Alex]

I don't know what the resistence is all about. Cost? Weight? We all buy very expensive things for climbing and life. Does an MLU weigh much? If it's the size of a large cell phone and that's the price of climbing Rainier and Hood in the Winter, yeah OK I'll rent one. I'm not particular FOR regularion here, but I'm also not FOR Death and Taxes either. If it makes the general public MORE willing to accept the cost of MY rescue, hell yeah!

 

I don't subscribe to MLUs (those on Hood); I'd rather carry a personal EPRIRB. They don't cost much, and once activated everyone in the World will know you are in trouble.

[Alpinfox]

Dane, your post has some interesting points

 

 

[Dane]

From my little research today it doesn't look like any of the current technology works the way I'd want it to.

 

I'd want sat phone/gps technology with an "always on" capability when wanted or equired. Say something I could turn on while on the climb and off for the approach. Much as I would a avi tranciever. How that would work or if it is even possible I have no clue. Would I want it to be a governmental mandated piece of gear to go out with? No.

 

Would I want one and use it if the technology were currenty available and at a decent price? You bet I would.

 

 

[Frikadeller]

I'd rather carry a personal EPRIRB. They don't cost much, and once activated everyone in the World will know you are in trouble.

 

last time I looked into buying one of those EPIRB or PLB, they where $600+...

 

That's a lot of money for me. Maybe that's chicken scratch for you.

 

Just the $300 for my Tracker DTS got me in hot water with my wife... Especially when I told her that it only works with another unit...

[Alpinfox]

Would I want it to be a governmental mandated piece of gear to go out with? No.

 

If you really believe this, I will take back calling you a dicknuckle. But then, why did you say you supported requiring Hood climbers to carry an MLU in the other thread?

 

From my little research today it doesn't look like any of the current technology works the way I'd want it to.

did you see this?

[Frikadeller]

From my little research today it doesn't look like any of the current technology works the way I'd want it to.

 

I'd want sat phone/gps technology with an "always on" capability when wanted or equired. Say something I could turn on while on the climb and off for the approach. Much as I would a avi tranciever. How that would work or if it is even possible I have no clue. Would I want it to be a governmental mandated piece of gear to go out with? No.

 

Would I want one and use it if the technology were currenty available and at a decent price? You bet I would.

 

 

I agree, and that is sort of a "pie in the sky" type of equipment. I suppose that one could say that the current "spot" tracker does this to some degree. But it would be cool if it could also track and search another unit just like a avy beacon does. Maybe in the future the technology will be there for such a device. The current is not that time.

[Dane]

If you really believe this, I might take back calling you a dicknuckle. But then, why did you say you supported requiring Hood climbers to carry an MLU in the other thread?

 

Come on Fox....the conversation needs to start some where. Assume I am an agent provocateur in this case. For what ever reasons some stupid shit happens on Hood. What does it take to get people's attention if we as climbers don't sit up and take notice that things could be different?

 

I'd rather "us" decide beacons were a good thing (and become common place) than the state of Oregon or worse yet the NPS. Either way, we "do it" or "they" will.

 

Thanks for the link. Currently the Spot 2 has a recall on it. And so-so reviews. It can be done better.

[Rad]

Dane, what you want could be done, but it would be expensive and the market would be too small to be of interest to companies. OnStar has gps and signaling capacity plus an accelerometer to tell if you've been in an accident. Instead of "Have you been in an accident should I call an ambulance?" It might be, "Did you just safely glissade 1200ft or did you cartwheel off a cliff and starfish at the bottom of a crevassae?"

 

 

Dane, your post has some interesting points

 

 

A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. You should try it sometime.

[Alpinfox]

For what ever reasons some stupid shit happens on Hood.

 

The reason is that 10,000/year climb Hood. Stupid shit happens everywhere at some frequency. And BTW, there is no evidence that the climbers involved in this current incident did anything stupid. Rockfall/icefall can catch anybody despite gear/experience/weather forecast, especially on a shitpile rimefest of a mountain like Hood. It's way too early to even try to point any fingers at this point.

 

I'd rather "us" decide beacons were a good thing

 

You are free to carry whatever gear/beacon/etc you deem necessary.

 

You are also free to state your case that climbers should individually make the decision to purchase/carry beacons/helmets/tutus/whatever... HOWEVER, I have a big problem with a climber publicly espousing legislating required behavior/gear. The media have quoted people from this website before and they will do it again. We have enough regs as it is.

 

Let's not give them the fodder to say, "many climbers support this legislation".

 

THIS is the message that climbers should be giving to the media

[Dane]

Well Fox you are free to take issue to anything I say.

 

However I do personally think beacons (that would actually do the job, as the current ones obviously won't) on Hood would actually make a difference and save lives. My thought is based on my own experience and the more recent history of climbing fatalities on Mt. Hood. You have a right to your own opinions, those are mine.

 

Would I like to seem them mandated? No. Would I like to see them in common use? Yes.

 

Simple reason, Hood is different...just as you said,

The reason is that 10,000/year climb Hood. Stupid shit happens....

 

Even more attempt Rainier each year (13,000) with fewer fatalities on a technically harder and higher mountain. I'd have to give much of the credit to the NPS climbing rangers for less "stupid shit" happening on Rainier.

 

Let's not relate "stupid shit" to any specific incident...present or past. "Stupid shit" in my mind relates only to a dinky 11,00ft pile of ash that a whole lot of people seem to die on needlessly on a regular basis.

 

Now as to your other comment, what are the "We have enough regs as it is" you talking about that seem to strain you as a climber?

 

NPS fees? Or is it the wilderness permit system that is bothering you? May be the no parking signs on private property in the Icicle? Or no overnight camping in your car in Yosemite's parking lots? (that one use to really piss me off) Guess i missed the regulations you seem to think so oppressive.

 

On a different note...anyone else looked at the prices on Sat. phones rentals recently? This discussion made me look around a bit on Goggle. I was amazed at just how little they do cost to rent and use.

 

 

[dmuja]

 

 

The way I see it now (for better or worse and yes, I think it's worse) is that if access is to continue in the US in this age of "CNN-FOX-MEDIAHYPERBULLSHIT" a majority of the people (both climbers and non) are sooner or later going to have to accept that...

 

a) climbers occasionally will die as long as there are still climbers

 

b) rescuing climbers is a worthwhile use of governmental resources

 

and

 

c) that in light of the first 2 facts, certain regulations/requirements will be imposed on climbers

 

Right now, some accept a & b but oppose c. Others support c without understanding or accepting a & b. Eventually the 2 minds will have to meet or someone is going to get their feewings hurt.

 

2 cents