News poll: require climbers to carry beacons?

[pdk]

Sorry to be blunt, but that is an awful idea.

 

You might be right....I'm not saying a agree with it. But here's the logic -

 

Isn't the argument against using a PLB that of self-sufficiency - that you, and you alone, take on the risks of your climb, and therefore chose not to carry a PLB?

 

If you expect to be rescued if you get in trouble, then what basis does one have for not being required to carry a PLB?

 

I guess I'd like to hear the rationale for those who DON'T carry a PLB but EXPECT to get rescued if the shit hits the fan.

 

[JosephH]

I would think what might be at least or maybe even more productive as beacons would be a Cascade climbers' weather service that would put out clear winter weather window advisories. The critical issue from my perspective isn't so much the day-of weather, but the quality and duration of an available backside window in which to mount self or SAR rescues should anything go wrong.

[Choada_Boy]

Isn't there a "Rampant Speculation and Opining" thread around here for this stuff?

 

I don't expect to be rescued. No one should. If you expect to be rescued, you shouldn't be climbing.

 

Joseph: Can't people check the weather forecast for themselves without needing an "OK Weather Window Advisory"? Isn't figuring that shit out part of the game?

[pdk]

 

I don't expect to be rescued. No one should. If you expect to be rescued, you shouldn't be climbing.

 

 

Exactly. Which is why lots of people choose not to carry a PLB - myself included.

[Julian]

Sorry to be blunt, but that is an awful idea.

 

You might be right....I'm not saying a agree with it. But here's the logic -

 

Isn't the argument against using a PLB that of self-sufficiency - that you, and you alone, take on the risks of your climb, and therefore chose not to carry a PLB?

 

If you expect to be rescued if you get in trouble, then what basis does one have for not being required to carry a PLB?

 

I guess I'd like to hear the rationale for those who DON'T carry a PLB but EXPECT to get rescued if the shit hits the fan.

 

I don't expect to be rescued, but I know that if I was on the mountain and word came to me that there was a climber in need of assistance, I would do everything in my power to help them and wouldn't even think to ask whether or not they were carrying a PLB/MLU.

 

Personally, I don't want to carry such a device because I feel that the over-reliance on technology for safety and rescue is a negative direction that should be discouraged. How long after a rule mandating such devices until we hear a story about a woefully under-experienced climber who needs rescue from a route they are not prepared for because their PLB lulled them into a false sense of security? That said, I do usually carry my cell phone with me on a climb (since it's something I have with me anyway) but do not consider it a reliable piece of safety equipment.

[PhilA]

I should reveal at this point that I actually work for KOIN (I work in the Art Department, I am not a reporter, or news producer). I should also clarify that long before I had this job, I was into climbing. I climbed Hood several times, including in winter, and have probably been on every glacier on the mountain (including the Ladd and Coe). I also climbed in South America, Central Asia, the Canadian Rockies, the St. Elias Range, etc. I dated a woman who worked at PMRU some 10+ years ago now. I just don't climb anymore due to age, and life getting in the way. So please, don't clump me in with the mass media!

 

I'm doing my best here to keep everyone that works here informed, and most everyone does listen to me at least some. I passed on the PMRU and MRA lists on why beacons should not be required, which was posted on the website. I was also able to get the news producer to have the anchors read last night that "most experts say an MLU would not have saved the climbers in 2006". But a great deal of e-mails and calls to the station are from the people you scorn. Those angry about climbers who have a "death wish" and "waste tax payer dollars" on rescues. We can try to steer them to places like the PMRU statement, but we're a TV station, not a university.

 

You guys must understand a few things. I realize it's may seem abrupt to discuss this while people are still missing, but avoiding this aspect while the jackals are howling to restrict, or even ban climbing, is a mistake. Yes, people are ignorant, judgmental, and have knee-jerk reactions to things they know little about, such as mountain climbing, but the solution is to be active, and educate, not ignore them.

 

I would also encourage any and all climbers passionate about his issue to feel free to bombard the news desk at every news station, plus the Oregonian and Tribune and WWeek about this. Go to their websites and start sending e-mails and posting on their sites.

 

KOIN Website

[ScaredSilly]

KOIN has new poll ...

 

If Oregon adopted a law mandating Mountain Locator Units for climbers, what else should it contain?

Training requirement for summit attempts

Search & rescue reimbursement when MLU is not used

State authority to close mountain to climbing, based on forecasts

All of the above

[danhelmstadter]

I don't expect to be rescued. No one should. If you expect to be rescued, you shouldn't be climbing.

 

I agree.

 

 

Hopeing the two missing make it back alive. My condolences to you Scott. positive vibes to all involved.

 

 

[JosephH]

Joseph: Can't people check the weather forecast for themselves without needing an "OK Weather Window Advisory"? Isn't figuring that shit out part of the game?

Apparently not given the recurring nature of the theme.

[olyclimber]

Here is a new Poll:

 

Should KOIN be allowed to do polls? Check only one:

 

O - No

O - No

[pdk]

 

I don't expect to be rescued, but I know that if I was on the mountain and word came to me that there was a climber in need of assistance, I would do everything in my power to help them and wouldn't even think to ask whether or not they were carrying a PLB/MLU.

I'm not saying we never rescue someone 'cause they don't have a PLB. Obviously, if the injured person's location is known, rescue them, but all means. I think everyone would do the same.

 

SAR: Do you have a PLB.

Injured Climber: A what?

SAR: Sorry sir, but we're gonna have to leave you here. We're not authorized to rescue you. Have a nice day

 

 

[kweb]

SAR: Do you have a PLB.

Injured Climber: A what?

SAR: Sorry sir, but we're gonna have to leave you here. We're not authorized to rescue you. Have a nice day

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Fire department: Did your mommy and daddy tell you not to play with matches

Little kid: Yes sir

Fire department: Sorry kid, we're going to have to leave you in the buring house. We're not authorized to resucue you. You should have listened to your mommy and daddy.

 

Its called search and rescue. Not locate a signal and rescue.

 

PhilA-

Thank you for providing some facts to the media.

[PhilA]

Jake - Suggest you e-mail the station with your thoughts. You're preaching to the choir here.

[Julian]

KOIN has new poll ...

 

If Oregon adopted a law mandating Mountain Locator Units for climbers, what else should it contain?

Training requirement for summit attempts

Search & rescue reimbursement when MLU is not used

State authority to close mountain to climbing, based on forecasts

All of the above

 

All three of these are absolute fucking jokes, for reasons that are too numerous to name.

[Choada_Boy]

Freedom isn't free. There's a heafty fuckin' fee.

[pdk]

The reality is the only possible law that has been discussed that has ANY teeth is the "Search & rescue reimbursement when MLU is not used".

 

A requirement mandating use of a MLU? It'd be a joke. No agency has the funds to enforce that in any meaningful way.

 

(And obviously I was kidding KWEB......sheesh)

[Choada_Boy]

Is SAR legally required to search for missing climbers?

[PhilA]

Julian, everyone - Write to the station and say so if you don't like these polls, or the reporting. Recommend you leave out the f-word, for obvious reasons.

 

Here is the e-mail for the desk: koindesk@koin.com

 

Here's the phone number: (503) 464-0600

 

Here is the on-line form.

 

Here's KOIN's Twitter link

 

Here is the Facebook link.

 

Don't just sit around and complain to each other, do something about it and contact the staion(s). The people who want to restrict climbing and vote with the 88% majority in these polls are.

Edited December 15, 2009 by PhilA

[kweb]

KOIN has new poll ...

 

If Oregon adopted a law mandating Mountain Locator Units for climbers, what else should it contain?

Training requirement for summit attempts

Search & rescue reimbursement when MLU is not used

State authority to close mountain to climbing, based on forecasts

All of the above

 

The cost to enforce the above would be more then the costs for the rescues.

[PhilA]

The cost to enforce the above would be more then the costs for the rescues.

Then let everyone know.

[Off_White]

You are the journalist, right? That's your job. Polls are not about disseminating information, they're BS sampling tools to determine if opinion manipulation has been successful.

 

edit: never mind, I read your post above and realize you're with the art dept, not reporting. Still, feel free to tell them they're acting stupid

Edited December 15, 2009 by Off_White

[Off_White]

Oh, and I think the people to inform are your legislators, not a tv station opinion poll.

[PhilA]

No. As I pointed out, I am NOT a journalist. I work in the art department, making animations and such for promotions for the station and network, and every so often commercials for third party clients. I do not work in the newsroom, and only mingle with reporters and producers occasionally. I see the news director maybe once a week in the stairwell or elevator.

 

I'm surprised that one wouldn't be interested in contacting the media (or anyone other than fellow climbers?) about getting their voice heard on such important issues.

 

 

[PhilA]

Yes, on legislators. But public opinion has a lot of sway, and a lot of that is fed into, and through the media.

 

Contrary to what people think, the media spends the majority of it's time reporting on issues very quickly, not creating them, and not educating people. Hence, the executive news producer here may read the PMRU statement and say "That makes sense". But if people call up 100:1 saying we should report on how stupid climbing is, and climbers don't speak up for themselves, what do you think they're going to report on?

 

It isn't my position to be the lone voice going into another department telling them they are stupid. I'm another employee to many of them. You may not believe it, but your voice has as much, and probably more sway than mine does to them.

 

Again. Don't like the way the media reports stories - contact them and tell them so.

 

I'm starting to think I made a mistake posting this on here?

[Off_White]

Naw, no mistake, and it's a good topic. I appreciate your input.