Kimmo Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Food for thought. Atlantic Monthly article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 btw, sorry about yer kid ivan. sounds like she's bouncing back, which is to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Ah shit.....here we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 go ahead, say sumpin' stupid Kevin...we are all standing around waiting to begin the dogpile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 go ahead, say sumpin' stupid Kevin...we are all standing around waiting to begin the dogpile... Sumpin's stupid. happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I didn't write "Say something is stupid"....there was no contraction... I wrote: "say something stupid"... duh, you are one stupid idjiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I didn't write "Say something is stupid"....there was no contraction... I wrote: "say something stupid"... say sumpin' stupid Kevin... Who is the idiot now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 please abort this thread for warm confines of the other room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I didn't write "Say something is stupid"....there was no contraction... I wrote: "say something stupid"... say sumpin' stupid Kevin... Who is the idiot now? you obviously lack reading comprehension... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 btw, sorry about yer kid ivan. sounds like she's bouncing back, which is to be expected. thanks - bringing her back from the hospital tomorrow if tonight goes well - she only occasionally talks to me like i'm lucifer now learned some fun family triva out of this - turns out my ma's grandfather died in 1918 when her mother was just 2 weeks old - the spanish flu of course, the one that killed more in 1 year than all those killed in all the years of the great war just before it combined - my daughter would no doubt have shared her great, great grandfather's fate if she hadn't gotten the care she did - as for him, the hospitals in those days had nothing to offer, so he died at home, but not before he called a priest in to baptise his girl and give her a name, genevieve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Now my kids got it... Both have 103 fever for a couple days now. Taking them in today if it gets any worse. I'm GONNA get my flu shots today while I'm there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 only because you read the article, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Now my kids got it... Both have 103 fever for a couple days now. Taking them in today if it gets any worse. I'm GONNA get my flu shots today while I'm there. Dave...you are young and healthy. Why get the flu shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 to stay healthy...duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) I wish I had more time to write this. I am not a flu expert. I am not a huge opponent to flu vaccines, I personally will not get flu or H1N1 vaccines, but there are some things that need to be understood. Flu vaccines, even "live" vaccines, only prime the immune system for primary exposure. It DOES NOT prime your immune system for primary infection or persistent infection. There is a difference between exposure and infection. You go get a flu shot great, get it every year great, you might get sick, you might not. If you don't and you are exposed it very likely could be because of the protection afforded to you to primary exposure by the shot. Great. The problem is you are never "teaching" your immune system to fight off a primary or persistent infection. The viral antigens involved can be vastly different, as well as the immunological compartment involved in fighting that infection. In the event you do get a primary infection, since your immune system has not been primed for it, it doesn't know what to do and you get really sick until it figures it out. At this point you have developed a lasting immunity to fend off future infections. The same goes for antibiotics. Yes antibiotics are for bacterial infections, but it's the same concept. I do believe the concept of herd immunity does exist, it developed over thousands and thousands of years. What changed is we started sending kids to school, centralized pathogen breeding grounds. Now it's not the hunter gathers risking primary exposure, it's the progeny. Edited November 4, 2009 by jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 salient excerpt from article: Yet some top flu researchers are deeply skeptical of both flu vaccines and antivirals. Like the engineers who warned for years about the levees of New Orleans, these experts caution that our defenses may be flawed, and quite possibly useless against a truly lethal flu. And that unless we are willing to ask fundamental questions about the science behind flu vaccines and antiviral drugs, we could find ourselves, in a bad epidemic, as helpless as the citizens of New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. those pesky people who keep bringing up nagging questions about vaccines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 hmmm...stuff to ponder...in light of this were small pox and polio vaccinations the real deal? Or did the little buggerz just die off? I still don't think its a bad idea for small children to be vaccinated (mine have been)...personally i haven't gotten it and won't, but not for the reasons that kevin states...i believe i can fight it off... we will see...i have had influenza before and it laid me out for a week and then i developed a pretty bad cough for weeks afterwards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 personally i haven't gotten it and won't, but not for the reasons that kevin states...i believe i can fight it off... Please tell me the reason I state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Vaccination has definitly been responsible for eradicating certain diseases, including smallpox. Actually, the term vaccination comes from the cowpox virus (vaccinia), which is what is used to vaccinate people for smallpox, because it is so similar to the smallpox virus. Its a good question, Rudy, why vaccination has been so effective for diseases like smallpox and polio, but not for the flu? Anyone know? Maybe b/c it mutates so quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 got my girl home today - she looks like a concentration camp survivor - lost 10% of her body-weight, blond hair fused into a singular bob marley dread, a distinctly hollow look in her eyes, but she's very happy to be home and even got to wave at her kindergrten class friends at recess from teh car window when we drove by to remind her she'll eventually get back to a regular life i don't know much more about vaccines than i learned in college biology and watching "outbreak" - clearly vaccines have transformed the world for the better in general - no one misses smallpox, measles, diphteria (holy shit, if you've never read of the cruel, cruel way that killed kids, google it b/c it was beyond fear-of-god-awful), etc. as for the flu, whatever - clearly that vaccine is much less useful/effective - some years i get one, most years not - i'm lazy and not a zealot - it is folly though to assume that your personal strenght and health will save you if a flu like the 1918 one shows up again as it killed strong healthy folks by the millions (though i suspect the mortality would be much less these days for folks like my daughter who actually get extensive meical care) we're climbers - do we really worry about shit like this? pretty much the same as getting clobered by icefall or hit by lightening - not really that much you can do about it, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 personally i haven't gotten it and won't, but not for the reasons that kevin states...i believe i can fight it off... Please tell me the reason I state? S T U P I D I T Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 got my girl home today - she looks like a concentration camp survivor - lost 10% of her body-weight, blond hair fused into a singular bob marley dread, a distinctly hollow look in her eyes, but she's very happy to be home and even got to wave at her kindergrten class friends at recess from teh car window when we drove by to remind her she'll eventually get back to a regular life i don't know much more about vaccines than i learned in college biology and watching "outbreak" - clearly vaccines have transformed the world for the better in general - no one misses smallpox, measles, diphteria (holy shit, if you've never read of the cruel, cruel way that killed kids, google it b/c it was beyond fear-of-god-awful), etc. as for the flu, whatever - clearly that vaccine is much less useful/effective - some years i get one, most years not - i'm lazy and not a zealot - it is folly though to assume that your personal strenght and health will save you if a flu like the 1918 one shows up again as it killed strong healthy folks by the millions (though i suspect the mortality would be much less these days for folks like my daughter who actually get extensive meical care) we're climbers - do we really worry about shit like this? pretty much the same as getting clobered by icefall or hit by lightening - not really that much you can do about it, eh? This is basically why i'm ambivalent about it...the early statistics showed very little lethality with H1N1 for people in my age bracket; hence my decision to not vaccinate myself...correspondingly, this bug did show some propensity for whacking little kids who otherwise should have been able to battle it off so i opted to vaccinate them...normally they do not get flu shots because the general lethality for them is not high... but, let's face it, none of us are getting out of here alive...we will all bite it one day or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Now my kids got it... Both have 103 fever for a couple days now. Taking them in today if it gets any worse. I'm GONNA get my flu shots today while I'm there. Dave...you are young and healthy. Why get the flu shot? I have not had a flu shot in the past 15 or 20 years. However, I got a cold about a month ago, likely the same one my kids got about the same time. A few days later, I felt better. A few days after that, it came back, only worse. After being sick for most of a month, only to have my kids now sicker than ever today, I feel it is worth the benefit to get the shot (probably too late though as I may be exposed already). Of course, I went to Kaiser to get my shots and they have neither flu vaccines. So. for now, I guess I just hope I won't get sick(er). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 personally i haven't gotten it and won't, but not for the reasons that kevin states...i believe i can fight it off... u and the rest of ur minions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 don't touch ur nose, don't touch ur eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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