StevenSeagal Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 good article link and it's conclusion is obvious - yeah, you can't have the freedom of speech and not have jackasses capable of inciting others to violence w/ impunity - just one of the thousands of annoyances of daily life- in the meantime, use what peaceful means you have at your disposal - boycott rush or whoever's shows and pressure their funding sources to get out - imus came up earlier as an example of liberal hate-speech - not that i listen to the guy, but i seem to recall he lost his gig, at least for awhile Wait, so despite the subject of the article (a marked rise in domestic terrorism on the part of the American Right), you use this as an opportunity to admonish those who are opposed to the incitement of violence not to use violence. Wake and bake is clearly not doing you much good. So what's your solution?? Are we supposed to pick up our guns and sink to the Neanderthal level? I kinda prefer the approach. If you and FW start a civil war I'll disappear into India or South America or someplace where dialogue is still valued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 So what's your solution?? Are we supposed to pick up our guns and sink to the Neanderthal level? I kinda prefer the approach. If you and FW start a civil war I'll disappear into India or South America or someplace where dialogue is still valued. indeed - perhaps this churchill quote regarding the unleashing of violence in the pursuit of your cause is apt? "Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 http://foxnewsboycott.com/ "Due to the extremely biased and partisan reporting by Fox News shows including The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity, Fox & Friends, etc., there is a strong public stance against supporting sponsors of these shows. FoxNewsBoycott.com urges you to not only boycott Fox News, its sponsors, but also any stores or restaurants that air the Fox News channel in their place of business." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenSeagal Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 http://foxnewsboycott.com/ also any stores or restaurants that air the Fox News channel in their place of business." well, that should pretty much put the south out of business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 I wasn't advocating meeting rightwing terrorism with violence in that post, only pointing out the logical inconsistency. I think the rhetoric on the part of these demagogues and the corresponding rise in violent acts necessitates the need for an organized, concerted response on the part of those opposed to it. There are many resources that are available to us, including, but not limited to the means that Ivan suggested. This response must come from outside the State (even suggesting hate-speech legislation modeled after postwar Germany's would throw gas on the fire) and should take the tactical high road, as you suggest. But, as I have said before, I am not a pacifist and if things should continue to spiral out of control I probably wouldn't lay down to be beaten or shot, set myself on fire, or flee the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 But, as I have said before, I am not a pacifist and if things should continue to spiral out of control I probably wouldn't lay down to be beaten or shot, set myself on fire, or flee the country. LOL. Bullshit. You'd cower in the corner just as you indicated in the samurai sword thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 But, as I have said before, I am not a pacifist and if things should continue to spiral out of control I probably wouldn't lay down to be beaten or shot, set myself on fire, or flee the country. LOL. Bullshit. You'd cower in the corner just as you indicated in the samurai sword thread. Show me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 http://foxnewsboycott.com/ "Due to the extremely biased and partisan reporting by Fox News shows including The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity, Fox & Friends, etc., there is a strong public stance against supporting sponsors of these shows. FoxNewsBoycott.com urges you to not only boycott Fox News, its sponsors, but also any stores or restaurants that air the Fox News channel in their place of business." regretably, i'm so damn poor i'm in actual fact pretty much boycotting everybody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) I wasn't advocating meeting rightwing terrorism with violence in that post, only pointing out the logical inconsistency. I think the rhetoric on the part of these demagogues and the corresponding rise in violent acts necessitates the need for an organized, concerted response on the part of those opposed to it. There are many resources that are available to us, including, but not limited to the means that Ivan suggested. This response must come from outside the State (even suggesting hate-speech legislation modeled after postwar Germany's would throw gas on the fire) and should take the tactical high road, as you suggest. But, as I have said before, I am not a pacifist and if things should continue to spiral out of control I probably wouldn't lay down to be beaten or shot, set myself on fire, or flee the country. j_b's link would seem to be just what you're looking for then. - and i'm sure that it mentions it somewhere on that website, but just boycotting alone is ineffectual, you need to actually communicate w/ the company too and organzie others to do the same - i'd be happy to sign whatever groovy letter you choose to knock up and send to the good folks listed there Edited September 25, 2009 by ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 regretably, i'm so damn poor i'm in actual fact pretty much boycotting everybody Welcome to the one-dollar/one-vote utopia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 j_b's link would seem to be just what you're looking for then. - and i'm sure that it mentions it somewhere on that website, but just boycotting alone is ineffectual, you need to actually communicate w/ the company too and organzie others to do the same - i'd be happy to sign whatever groovy letter you choose to knock up and send to the good folks listed there Companies typically utilize a metric where 1 angry email = 1000 angry people that didn't send any emails, for example. So, 1000 angry emails, a small number, really, would have a dramatic effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 But, as I have said before, I am not a pacifist and if things should continue to spiral out of control I probably wouldn't lay down to be beaten or shot, set myself on fire, or flee the country. Hell yeah! Let's bust some heads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 j_b's link would seem to be just what you're looking for then. - and i'm sure that it mentions it somewhere on that website, but just boycotting alone is ineffectual, you need to actually communicate w/ the company too and organzie others to do the same - i'd be happy to sign whatever groovy letter you choose to knock up and send to the good folks listed there Companies typically utilize a metric where 1 angry email = 1000 angry people that didn't send any emails, for example. So, 1000 angry emails, a small number, really, would have a dramatic effect. kind of like one angry person at a town hall meeting on health care "reform" equals 1000 pissed off Americans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hell yeah! Let's bust some heads! I'd reciprocate, but your head is already clearly "busted" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 j_b's link would seem to be just what you're looking for then. - and i'm sure that it mentions it somewhere on that website, but just boycotting alone is ineffectual, you need to actually communicate w/ the company too and organzie others to do the same - i'd be happy to sign whatever groovy letter you choose to knock up and send to the good folks listed there Companies typically utilize a metric where 1 angry email = 1000 angry people that didn't send any emails, for example. So, 1000 angry emails, a small number, really, would have a dramatic effect. kind of like one angry person at a town hall meeting on health care "reform" equals 1000 pissed off Americans... Sure. But those people represent 1000 inarticulate, uninformed, mislead, undereducated, functionally illiterate, overweight, and willfully ignorant sheep baa-ing out what they heard on The O'Reilly Factor. Your typical Conservative Republican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hell yeah! Let's bust some heads! I'd reciprocate, but your head is already clearly "busted" For real? Should we start a CC.Com Fight Club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 This thread is gay....can we have some Pamela shots now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 New McCarthyism: Fear of science and the war on rationality by Peter Gleick As more and more of the world looks to knowledge, education, and science as the routes out of poverty and conflict, parts of America seems to be slipping back toward the Dark Ages, when fear of knowledge and science led to an impoverishment of civilization that had lasting effects for centuries. I've recently returned from two weeks in northern Europe and a series of scientific water meetings and discussions with people from over 130 countries. They read the news from the United States with incredulity. America is still seen as the place to come for aspiring students and scientists around the world. Our public universities, despite assaults on budgets, independence, and knowledge, still struggle to maintain their excellence. But my friends and colleagues from overseas are increasingly shocked, as are many of us in the U.S., by the expanding efforts of home-grown extremists to undermine rational discourse, eliminate the use of fact and science in policymaking, and shut down public debate over the vital issues of our times through hate, vitriol, and ad hominem attacks. Looking through the eyes of my overseas colleagues, what do we see? We see a debate over providing health care to every American that is based -- not on facts or civilized discourse -- but on screaming mobs shutting down public discussions and the use of straw man arguments to promote fear among the public and policymakers. Yet every major country of Europe provides basic health care for its population. We see President Obama appoint one of the nation's best scientists in the areas of energy, environment, and national security -- Dr. John Holdren -- to be his Science Advisor, and then have right-wing mouthpieces like Glenn Beck spread ad hominem lies about him because of their fear that facts and actual science may once again inform Presidential action. This should be a recognizable tactic to us -- lying about a person to diminish their effectiveness. In fact, these extremists want to undermine the forward-looking policies that would prevent the very draconian measures they say they deplore. We see unambiguous evidence that climate change is already affecting human health and the global economy -- evidence often collected by world-leading American scientists and scientific institutions -- while public opinion polls show that the American people continue to be misled about the risks facing us by conservative pundits who ignore, misunderstand, or intentionally misuse that science to mislead the public into fear of change. Yet we already see huge economic and environmental opportunities in adapting to the reality of climate change. Fear is an effective tool -- as hate groups and extremists know. It is no accident that repressive regimes of all kinds -- fascists, the Nazis, Stalin, religious states, madrasses -- use tools of hatred, anti-intellectualism, and fear to control knowledge, universities, and intellectuals. Fear grows best when sown in fields of ignorance, while science, rationality, and education are the greatest weapons modern societies have against irrational fear. No wonder Beck and his ilk have intellectuals in their sights; so do the leaders of Iran, and Burma, and the Taliban, and North Korea, for similar reasons. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/gleick/detail??blogid=104&entry_id=47022#ixzz0S90LMfLJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 For real? Should we start a CC.Com Fight Club? YOU DO NOT SPRAY ABOUT FIGHT CLUB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Our President has handled himself with dignity and decorum through a difficult primary and later strident and ignorant right wing harpy attacks. It's been a great thing to watch his restraint and skill in response to those. Starting from when Hillary started the underhanded personal attacks in the primary and Barak refused to buy in. He advised his workers to not get personal and to resist attacking personalities. He even fired a campaign worker who, despite having read the "don't be a dick message", decided on his own to send out an underhanded return nastygram. The man has been faithful to his words in that sense, and we are all the better for it. Ignoring people like Beck, Savage and the others, who start off with false suppositions and end with an angry personal tirade or attack: would be the best thing we can do as citizens if we are tired of that kind of bullshit. Ignore them. When we see a Prick like Pete Wilson act out like a 3 year old, write your congressmen and senators. Pick a position YOU feel strong about, and write your them as well. Ignore the idiots who are like Dogs barking at the caravan in the desert.... the caravan continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Ignore the idiots who are like Dogs barking at the caravan in the desert.... the caravan continues. Cool. So we get to ignore Fairweather and KKKKK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Ignore the idiots who are like Dogs barking at the caravan in the desert.... the caravan continues. Cool. So we get to ignore Fairweather and KKKKK? it would only be fair as i sorta kinda think they already ignore you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Ignore the idiots who are like Dogs barking at the caravan in the desert.... the caravan continues. Cool. So we get to ignore Fairweather and KKKKK? it would only be fair as i sorta kinda think they already ignore you Even steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 What I find hilarious is that liberals now have control of the executive branch, the House, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and they still can't foist their agenda on the American public. What's more; it would seem that the radical left fringe has become even angrier now than they were when GW and the Republicans ran the whole show--with whacko tools like j_b, Prole, and Coada even threatening to kill radio talk show hosts! THIS IS FUCKING GREAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Our President has handled himself with dignity and decorum through a difficult primary and later strident and ignorant right wing harpy attacks. It's been a great thing to watch his restraint and skill in response to those. Starting from when Hillary started the underhanded personal attacks in the primary and Barak refused to buy in. He advised his workers to not get personal and to resist attacking personalities. He even fired a campaign worker who, despite having read the "don't be a dick message", decided on his own to send out an underhanded return nastygram. The man has been faithful to his words in that sense, and we are all the better for it. Ignoring people like Beck, Savage and the others, who start off with false suppositions and end with an angry personal tirade or attack: would be the best thing we can do as citizens if we are tired of that kind of bullshit. Ignore them. When we see a Prick like Pete Wilson act out like a 3 year old, write your congressmen and senators. Pick a position YOU feel strong about, and write your them as well. Ignore the idiots who are like Dogs barking at the caravan in the desert.... the caravan continues. I don't believe we should ignore hate speech. I don't watch/listen to these shows, which isn't the same as pretending they aren't a threat to democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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