health insurance for climbers

[JosephH]

That anyone in the U.S. would need to start a thread with 'health insurance' in the title says about everything you need to know about the issue. It isn't an issue of individual, state, or constitutional rights, but rather of comparative advantage among industrialized nations.

[mattp]

Fairweather,

 

I believe it was YOUR argument that first suggested a Constitutional amendment would be necessary or appropriate if Congress wanted to enact health care.

 

I doubt you're even talking about implied powers under the Necessary and Proper Clause. What you're talking about is amending (or, IMO, violating) our constitution--and if Congress and the states approached health care reform via this process, I would approve of the legality at least.

 

 

Tvash, as I read his argument, simply stated that all other so-called advanced nations DO consider having access to health care to be a fundamental right. I'm not entirely sure, but I think Thomas Jefferson might have agreed had he been alive today:

 

“all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ..."

 

Healthcare was not an issue of the day when they wrote the Constitution, but they did include the 9th amendment in the bill of rights:

 

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

Joseph Healy is right: we're talking about taking care of people here and we will be more competitive if we have affordable healthcare for all our citizens. Arguments that those who seek decent healthcare in this country are trying to turn us into a communist nation or that Congress must amend the Constitution if they want to enact healthcare legislation are absurd.

[olyclimber]

yes. only those who are worthy should get it.

 

Yes, and that is what the Death Panels will decide.

 

ok Palin, whatever you say.

[Fairweather]

Tvash, as I read his argument, simply stated that all other so-called advanced nations DO consider having access to health care to be a fundamental right. I'm not entirely sure, but I think Thomas Jefferson might have agreed had he been alive today:

 

“all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ..."

 

 

I disagree completely. Jefferson would have left it to the states at most. Hell, he didn't even bother to show up for the constitutional convention!

[olyclimber]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-thu-problem-briana-rice-sep17,0,807488,full.column

[tvashtarkatena]

Health care is not fundamentally an argument about competitiveness. It is about our moral responsibility towards each other. Our 'competitiveness' will not inspire this nation to do the right thing. The moral argument will, or at least it should.

 

Now, competitiveness may or may not be a result of reform, but such a statement is constitutes more pandering to the Far Right. Fuck em, they've been a train wreck for the past past 30 years, and hey, they lost. Given their shrill behavior of late, the Far Right, like any screaming street corner psychotic, simply needs to be walked on by and ignored if this country is to have a prayer of moving towards any semblance of a better future. THat is not to say bipartisanship is dead. Anyone involved in lobbying knows that nearly all successful bills must be cosponsored on both sides of the isle. It is to say that the freaks of the GOP, and there are many, need to be left gnashing their teeth in their philosophical trailer parks while the rest of us leave the dysfunction behind.

 

Now the Right, you my have noticed, has gleefully stepped over a hundred good people in need of help to punish that one meth head who doesn't 'deserve' help. It has tortured 100 innocent people to get to that one B movie grade 'terrorist' (or driver, accountant, or other peripheral factotum, as it usually turns out). It has put a hundred 20 year old kids, an inordinate percentage of them black (surprise!) in prison for mandatory 10 years or more, to get to that one 'drug kingpin'.

 

Essentially, it's a movement which worships cruelty, fueled by a simpleton's mythology that has gifted us with such exotic threats as 'super predators', 'welfare moms', or, for those who haven't the mental faculties to distinguish these nuanced personalities, the all encompassing 'evildoers'. It's a stone stupid movement that believes in the Big Machine; that a bigger hammer will crush any problem, as long as it's an American hammer (or at least wielded by an American...made in China is OK).

 

We need to continue to politically marginalize the Far Right until they no longer participate in policy making in any practical way. In Darwinian terms, their traits no longer fit the climate. Of course, they never did: their dysfunctional behavior thrived only in times of gross excess, propelled by the pipedream of re-fighting and winning another Vietnam.

 

 

Now back to my chocobacon. Mmmmmmmmm, that shit is GOOD.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

And who gives a shit what Thomas Jefferson would have thought or done? He ain't on the payroll.

[archenemy]

I am in the market for health insurance and I talked to a company that gives pretty cheap plans yesterday, but they asked if I rock climbed and I told the truth... They said they would not cover me if I got injured climbing. Ugh!! Frustrating...

 

Anyone know if all insurance companies ask that question? Anyone have a cheap plan now that is basically catastrophic insurance, but would cover a climbing accident? I will be living in CO, so I would have to go through a company that had contracts with providers there. Thanks for your help!

I have not read this thread, so forgive me if I am just repeating stuff already posted.

 

My insurance says that it doesn't cover dangerous "stuff". However, when I took a lead fall and did $30K worth of damage to myself, they covered everything. I do not have extra special insurance or anything super expensive. However, I was not asked specifically about climbing before being insured.

 

I did look into climbers insurance years ago. It was prohibitively expensive and didn't seem to cover much. Maybe as you research other companies, you will find one that does not expressly call out climbing in their SPD. Read through and see what you get before you answer their questions.

 

Good luck!!!

[archenemy]

The insurance company was Assurent. A lot of my classmates like them because they offer really cheap rates if you are healthy. They said they would tack on $40 a month to cover me and my husband for climbing injuries, but would only pay up to 10K in bills for the injury. I work in the healthcare system and know that 10K is nothing if you are injured seriously. Yes, they asked me if i went skydiving, whitewater kayaking, mountain climbing, SCUBA diving OR rock climbing. Anyone have any actual help out there?? Wasn't sure if this post belonged on the climber's board or spray...

 

I work in the medical school myself and also happened to sustain a few major fall injuries (not climbing related though) a few years back, so here is my two cents.

 

Although I do have a group health insurance through my employer, the co-pay is still an out of pocket expense that does add up in the long run.

 

If this Assurent do not lie to you and would indeed cover your climbing injuries for 40$ a month (on top of the regular premium, right?), you got yourself a deal!

 

Yes, 10K is not enough for serious injuries like neck or spinal injuries (these would run 50K each) but the probability of getting them in rock climbing is rather slim as opposed to more frequently fractured ankles, wrists etc. or torn ligaments/tendons. So think about that.

On the positive note, the 10K would cover the usual suspect injuries (including metalwork!) if you make right decisions on how and where to get medical help.

 

1. Try to avoid the ER visits and ambulance calls as much as you can. These two are the major money suckers which is getting worse and worse every day.

Go straight to either Orthopedics (bones) or Trauma (soft tissue damage and ligaments/tendons) department with an X-ray facility on site and without an appointment (or get somebody on call, if out of hours, preferably not a resident) and insist they deal with you right away.

REMEMBER: you have this right and they cannot turn you away.

 

2. You have right to choose the type of anaesthesia (another significant chunk on the medical bill). The prep IV is an absolute waste, for instance.

 

3. Rehab PT: two sessions max. Just learn the exercises and do it yourself. You do not need someone with a whip to tell you what to do three times a week for a few months.

 

4. Ask Assurent if they work with preferred and non-preferred providers. If they do, it might save you some money too.

 

I hope this helps. PM me if you have more questions.

 

NIL DESPERANDUM!

Awesome advice!!!

Except the PT. Totally disagree. Use your PT. You can't just get exercises and move on. As your injury heals and your ROM improves, your exercises change.

PT is worth it's cost. Especially if you want to walk again without looking like you need a parrot on your shoulder.

[Crillz]

I also didn't want to read the babble, but if this post is still about trying to obtain coverage...

 

I just got a plan from Regence (Blue Shield). The plan is an individual plan PPO for $92/month. Comes with a few office visits a year, but you can go wherever the fuck you want to get care. I think the out of pocket limit is $7,500/Year - but what does that cover - a simple bone break at best.

 

I read the policy very carefully, no disclaimer for anything other than professional type sports where you compete for money.

[prole]

...the Far Right, like any screaming street corner psychotic, simply needs to be walked on by and ignored if this country is to have a prayer of moving towards any semblance of a better future.

 

Unfortunately, Obama didn't get the memo. Ironically, he's the right wing's best friend.

[archenemy]

I am also Blue Shield, Anthem.

 

I was concerned they wouldn't cover everything b/c I was taken to a facility that was not in network (but the surgeon was). It turns out they did cover everything (I was gearing up for a fight, believe me!).

 

So basically, I don't have big complaints about Blue Shield.

 

 

[Crillz]

Besides cost, I don't have any complaints yet (haven't used it and don't plan on it).

 

Last year and this year, I did have two 6-month catastrophic temporary plans through Assurant I think.

 

So, I quit working, wanted to be responsible and got the short term policy. Paid the "startup fee (maybe $30) and then about $60/month. Kept this up for 6 months. Policy set to expire, so I was allowed to renew one time. Had to pay the fucking fee again, and then the premium was about 10% higher - this increase was over the course of six months (WTF ) Never once used the policy!

 

Couldn't get another short term policy, so had to get what I have now. Another 40% increase in 6 months 8D. The short term policy was better than the catastrophic plan I have now - lower deductable.

[archenemy]

Wow! That is a huge increase. Where any of the coverages increased?

[Crillz]

There was no increase in coverage for the short term policy renewal.

 

I didn't compare the new plan side by side with the old plan, so I don't know if the coverage is better in any specific areas - overall, it's really similar though. Basically, I spent a few weeks researching the most basic plan that I fealt comfortable with, and tried to find the best price.

 

Maybe the price went up because I turned 30 this month. Such bullshit.

[archenemy]

You should argue that it should go down due to your advanced age. Death rates for males are much, much higher at younger ages.

[YocumRidge]

I am also Blue Shield, Anthem.

 

I was concerned they wouldn't cover everything b/c I was taken to a facility that was not in network (but the surgeon was). It turns out they did cover everything (I was gearing up for a fight, believe me!).

 

So basically, I don't have big complaints about Blue Shield.

 

 

Blue Shield have a good reputation in the PNW so stick them if you can.

 

 

[archenemy]

Thank you for the advice. I have a question for you. Funny enough, I just got a questionaire re: subrogation. If I answer the first question on the survey honestly, I would pick the second option on how my accident occurred (during a recreational sports activity). Could they decide that I am the one responsible and come after me? I would certainly have some complaints about them then....

 

I am reading my Plan Description right now, but I am a bit nervous. Good timing, eh?

[mattp]

Good luck with Regence.

 

My wife and I have had coverage with Regence for a few years and as soon as we developed significant health issues that threatened to be ongoing we found out our coverage was not at all what we thought we had purchased and what do you know: our premiums went up substantially as well.

 

The co-pays and limits to what services they covered became very significant when we started useing the coverage and on medications our coverage was particularly poor even though my wife had shopped very carefully and thought we had good coverage.

 

On one very expensive medication that my doctor inquired in advance to learn it would be covererd they covered 10% of a year's expense. On another, slightly better but still low. With a recent antibiotic they covered 25% of the cost of inexpensive medicines and then they denied coverage because they said my doctor was recommending a "non-preferred medicine" when my doctor said that, based on lab tests, I should switch to something else that just happened to be about 10 x more expensive. I got it anyway and it did the trick, though.

 

Regence is probably better than some companies and worse than others but, in general, individual insurance plans may take care of broken legs and stuff just fine. Be sure not to become chronically ill.

[t_rutl]

Life Wise has been great to me.

 

Didnt ask about lifestyle other than the normal health stuff...smoking, ect.

 

Covered a prior shoulder injury and even some partial vision stuff

[YocumRidge]

I just got a questionaire re: subrogation. If I answer the first question on the survey honestly, I would pick the second option on how my accident occurred (during a recreational sports activity). Could they decide that I am the one responsible and come after me? I would certainly have some complaints about them then....

 

I am reading my Plan Description right now, but I am a bit nervous. Good timing, eh?

 

Sounds familiar… This is how they cover up their asses but it is not as bad as you think.

 

What they are after is somebody else involved in your injury to get their money from by means of lawsuit or car/boat insurance claims (via “personal injury protection” EVEN in the recreational sports activity - I was in denial for a long time but it is the case). This is their business and if they have time and money to do that, let them. You will be covered by your policy on the timely basis regardless of their decision.

So yes I would go ahead and pick the second option in the subrogation.

 

[archenemy]

Thank you! Owe ya one.

[Valhallas]

I know this is an old thread, but I've been trying to get some answers to the same questions as the original poster and have some relevant info.

 

I'm planning to go with a 2 stage approach: lifewise of washington for health insurance, and the nicholas hill group, through the AAC, for accident insurance. I have read all the application paperwork for Lifewise and even called them on the phone to confirm, but to the best of my knowledge, there are no questions about activity in the application process. The rep I spoke with on the phone said all insurance companies in WA are legally required to use the same form to determine coverage, the Health Survey Questionnaire. I haven't filled it out yet, but reading through it quickly didn't reveal any questions about your activities. As a previous poster mentioned, the only questions are about smoking essentially.

 

Because I'm opting to go for a very low monthly rate/high deductible plan, I've decided to also get accident insurance. Specifically tailored for climbers and other outdoor folks, the accident insurance plan through the Nicholas Hill group, in conjunction with the AAC (you need to be a member I think, but why wouldn't you - I've already more than recouped my $40 fee in discounts at local stores with the AAC membership card) offers two policy tiers: gold and silver. The silver is $34/mo, $250 deductible, and covers up to $5,000 per incident. The gold is something like $44/mo, $150/10k? During ski season, if you call them up and ask for it, they will cover you for ski accidents for an additional $4/mo (yes, four) on the silver plan, or $50 for the gold. Seems well worth it, given that this is essentially what I'm saving by being able to go with a lower monthly premium insurance plan, and I would have significantly lower out of pocket expenses in case of an accident.

 

Hope someone finds that useful.