Look for the union label!

[t_rutl]

 

I just think you are are a tool.

 

My kind bleeds and die for your kind to make a "bonus"

 

Go fuck your self.

 

 

right...i'll get right on that...little touchy today are we?

 

i think your "bleeds and dies" comment is little over the top there champ...you chose your trade and nobody is taking advantage of you...the union would make sure of that

 

 

BTW, with out us, you would still be shitting in an out house.

 

 

 

without plumbers we'd still be shitting in out houses...with or without a union indoor plumbing would go on...

 

 

But: On another note, I am sure whatever shitty industry you work in, without the "Union" I am sure there are hordes of educated, trained and seasoned workers at your disposal that will take that generous $8.50 an hour job that those rip off "union" guys have been doing.

 

before talking smack about somebody's "shitty" industry you should find out what that is...you might be surprised how it affects you or the ones you love more than just not having to use a Honey Bucket...nobody's attacking your industry...just the disadvantages that organized labor brings to the table in corporate environments (whether private or government) that outweigh their advantages

 

you're trained and educated a field where it matters to have it. different when people pull the union card so they can get more than they are worth or when unions take jurisdiction where they don't need to be and wage gouge because it's there right? fuck that

 

$50+ and hour for you to work on my building so it functions and stays up to code? absolutely worth it. like i said...unions bring some good things to the table but much of the time they can do more harm than good...they can be a breeding ground for complacency and ...we're talking apples and oranges

 

 

[ivan]

teachers do need unions - the history of the profession shows a clear need - as a union member of a teachers union, i disagree w/ the notion that the union is there to protect shitty teachers

[t_rutl]

teachers do need unions - the history of the profession shows a clear need - as a union member of a teachers union, i disagree w/ the notion that the union is there to protect shitty teachers

 

cant comment on teachers unions.

 

teachers but more than unions, teachers need wages available to make it a noteworthy profession both in nobility and salary

 

how many people do you know who would make amazing educators and even expressed a past desire to do so but went down a different carreer path because of pay? i know several.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

teachers do need unions - the history of the profession shows a clear need - as a union member of a teachers union, i disagree w/ the notion that the union is there to protect shitty teachers

 

cant comment on teachers unions.

 

teachers but more than unions, teachers need wages available to make it a noteworthy profession both in nobility and salary

 

how many people do you know who would make amazing educators and even expressed a past desire to do so but went down a different carreer path because of pay? i know several.

 

Interestingly, we pay more per student than any other industrialized country and get the lowest ROI.

 

Kind of like Health Care.

 

Yet, nationalizing Health Care (like we've nationalized public schools) will somehow work...

[Bug]

Lowest ROI?

So you are saying we are behind other countries?

Which ones?

And their GDP is better than ours too?

I mean, if we are so poorly educated, we must be doing poorly in the marketplace too right?

 

Oh wait. That's right. You're a republican. Education sucks.

Never mind.

[t_rutl]

Anybody know any Republifucks who can climb worth shit?

 

that's because they're to busy pillaging and plundering innocent women and children, right?

 

Or fuck worth shit, for that matter?

you leave yourself open for worse insults...but that's ok...i'll be the bigger man and act older than 15

 

Yeah, that about sums it up.

sums what up? that based off one thing you might disagree with somebody on and explianing your point of view you make asinine, irrelevant generalizations...then yup...sure does

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Lowest ROI?

So you are saying we are behind other countries?

Which ones?

And their GDP is better than ours too?

I mean, if we are so poorly educated, we must be doing poorly in the marketplace too right?

 

Oh wait. That's right. You're a republican. Education sucks.

Never mind.

 

We score worse in Math and Science than almost every industrialized nation and have done so for decades. Our kids don't know shit about History or Geography, just to name a few subjects we lack in - woefully.

 

Yes, or GNP/GDP is great - we are a large country with a lot of talent, but that talent is focused on the top, just like our Health Care, right? And we import all the talent we home-grow, as I am certain you can attest to by looking around at your co-workers.

 

I am as pro-education as you get, and am sure I exceed your educational background in both scope (breadth) and knowledge (depth) on balance, so piss off, dung-beetle.

 

[kevbone]

You owe Bug a dollar.

[ivan]

I am as pro-education as you get, and am sure I exceed your educational background in both scope (breadth) and knowledge (depth) on balance, so piss off, dung-beetle.

2 weeks in a row you're pulling the "i know more than you" card - does this not make you feel even a tad arrogant?

 

part of the problem w/ your ROI issue, which is a very important one, is definining the "return" part - what is it that you want to measure? how, in a federal system (and historically in the usa education has always been highly decentralized), are we going to get uniformity on goals and assesments? and of course there's the apples to oranges problem - is comparing the ROI of an inner-city school to a super-affluent magnet-school sensible or equitable?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

2 weeks in a row you're pulling the "i know more than you" card - does this not make you feel even a tad arrogant?

 

I grow weary of the pigeon-holing bullshit. If Bug wants to imply that as a conservative, I don't care about education and am uneducated myself I will certainly tell him he is full of shit.

 

part of the problem w/ your ROI issue, which is a very important one, is definining the "return" part - what is it that you want to measure? how, in a federal system (and historically in the usa education has always been highly decentralized), are we going to get uniformity on goals and assesments? and of course there's the apples to oranges problem - is comparing the ROI of an inner-city school to a super-affluent magnet-school sensible or equitable?

 

I already implied what I am measuring. Our students can't read or write in their native tongue as can our counterparts in other industrialized nations, don't understand math or science as well, can not point out where they (or others) live on a globe yet alone know anything about the people living there, and then there is the collective lack of historical knowledge...

 

 

[t_rutl]

 

Read Wayne's post.

 

Oh, and you're a way shittier climber, too.

 

i did read wayne's post. maybe you should read mine. if you can infer anything from them, they are in response to aggravations due to unions taking advantage of their positions not the benefits they offer

 

and good for him he can climb better...what the fuck does that have to do with anything here? his first TR was posted 5 years before i even started and i'm sure he's been at it a whole lot longer than that...he should be able to out-climb me and i'm glad he can...his Three Fingers traverse kicked ass and i learned quite a bit from his outings

 

why dont you add something with substance to the debate…

 

[Jim]

Recent performance by US students in math and science is better than you portray. Not great, but not awful either.

 

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2009/analysis/

 

We're on par with some countries in Europe, but consistently beat out by Hong Kong, Japan, China, and Taiwan.

 

Do I want to mimic the eastern Asian role - I don't think so, but there is room for improvement.

 

The best predictor of school performance in this country is the percentage of kids in a school that are on the free/reduced lunch program. Work with students, as a teacher or volunteer, and the extreme influence of poverty on academic achievement becomes crystal clear. Is it impossible to be of lower economic status and do well in school? Certainly not. But it does impose quite a barrier. Teachers have the kids 6 hours a day and can't compete with a lousy home environment that doesn't support kids.

 

Rather than putting an emphasis on smoke and mirrors such as NCLB - which adds mandates and no finances for implementation, I'd like to see some real money go into building stronger inner city communities instead of some new Petagon toy research. Just saying.

 

[prole]

 

YAY MORE MATH AND SCIENCE!!! INTO THE FUTURE HERE WE COME!!!!

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naso7_DFno8

[ivan]

 

why dont you add something with substance to the debate

in spray this is usually considered poor form

[j_b]

as if demagoguery about fat-lazy-cigarette-smoking-union-members amounted to substance ...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

YAY MORE MATH AND SCIENCE!!!

 

Those are useful subjects. Consequently, they don't interest you in the least.

[prole]

YES! Our bold new toothbrush designs, counting beans for the corporations and creating the next revolution in making old men's wieners hard again will bury our enemies FOREVER! Is our children learning the vital skills necessary to compete with the next generation of Chinese and Indian whiz-kids that are making the products that we crave?

 

[t_rutl]

as if demagoguery about fat-lazy-cigarette-smoking-union-members amounted to substance ...

 

member...not members...not a generalization...you should have met him...the substance was illustrating the point that because he was a union member his actions and attitude were "above the law" so to speak and his position was not of specialized importance...the facility could do nothing or risk the union shutting down the operation...the union took advantage of their position there and it cost a non-profit organization money

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

YES! Our bold new toothbrush designs, counting beans for the corporations and creating the next revolution in making old men's wieners hard again will bury our enemies FOREVER!

 

Where do you think our medicines, and our doctors and nurses come from? Sociology majors? Communications?

 

Keep telling yourself you are studying something important Prole. But be sure you can afford to pay your loans back while flipping burgers.

[prole]

Oh yes of course, that's what our little math and science majors are doing: Saving the fucking planet! What a laugh, sounds like you've been reading too much PR horseshit, oh sorry, Communications.

[Peter_Puget]

F%$# T_rutl can't you see that the workers and our government are fighting against the greed of the capitalist and working together in partnership for the commonweal?!?!?!?!?

 

linky

[olyclimber]

not only that, but i think they are free masons! i heard the union call up for mason on the radio yesterday!!!!

 

[Peter_Puget]

Revive '95!

[olyclimber]

I. Senator Barack Obama is a 32nd Degree Prince Hall Mason!!

 

This revelation is not surprising, for it answers the question as to how Obama could ascend to the high political office when he apparently has no occult background and no discernible Masonic roots.

 

Now, you know the truth! He is a Mason! Let us consider the evidence.

 

NEWS BRIEF: "Obama Criticizes Opponents' Iraq Votes", Cephas Library, December 28, 2007

 

"Today, Prince Hall is a masonic fraternal order whose buildings are clearly marked, members readily identify themselves with rings, bumper stickers, and lapel pins. One of their most famous members, and also a 32nd degree Prince Hall Mason, became a US presidential candidate for 2008. His name is Barack Hussein Obama."

 

"Barack Obama, speaking at the Scottish Rite Masonic Center in Des Moines on Thursday, criticized other Democrats’ votes to authorize the war in Iraq. Prince Hall is a first black masonic lodge in the US, named by its founder and master who was the most famous black individual in the Boston area during the American Revolution and through the turn of the nineteenth century."

 

Prince Hall Masonry is identical to the the normal white Lodges in their teachings, in their symbolism, and now, in getting one of their own to the point where he could attain the highest political office in the land. For this reason, we show the book, "Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star", above, so you can learn the little-known facts of Freemasonry.

 

But, you say, this source is the only one in which it is reported that Obama is a Prince Hall Mason. You cannot go on only one source. You are right; we have another source, a website dedicated to the election of Senator Obama as President. As you can see, below, this website has the official Obama letterhead. ( pictures at webiste - http://cuttingedge. org/newsletters/ )

 

 

 

As you can see from this website, above, the two symbols depicting the Prince Hall Masonry are two very common Masonic symbols:

 

1) Colored Goatshead of Mendes Pentagram -- used strongly by the Eastern Star Masonic organization for women, but also used extensively by regular Masons. This particular pentagram is the most evil symbol in Black Magick Witchcraft!

 

 

This symbol is also "carved into the ground" in the street layout of Washington, D.C.

 

 

 

The Pentagram is also used as a talisman/amulet, for protection! Listen to the explanation given by the "Continental Association of Satan's Hope" as they describe their pentagram:

 

"You will find the Satanic Pentagram invaluable and indispensable as you attempt to draw from the infernal power of your Lord Satan! This extremely powerful amulet is the sign of the ... summation of all the occult forces! In other words, there is no amulet or talisman more powerful, or even close, to as powerful as the Satanic Pentagram". (Dr. Cathy Burns, "Hidden Secrets of the Eastern Star", p. 325)

 

Now you can understand how gravely important it is that Prince Hall Masonry uses the Satanic inverted Pentagram as one of its major symbols!

 

Now you know he is a Mason, you can begin to see how Obama could become such an important person in the Illuminati.

 

2) Standard Masonic Square and Compass with the 'G' in the middle

 

This Obama website invites you to send a message to Barack Obama by sending it to the Prince Hall Masons.

 

This reality tells us one of the major reasons Obama has risen so quickly so far in his political career. In fact, this information fills in the only missing piece to the puzzle. Because he is a high-ranking Mason, Obama was selected by the Illuminati to become the first black presidential candidate and, some say, the favorite to win in November.

 

New Age author, Bill Cooper, revealed in his book that no one is promoted to a high level within American Intelligence unless he has significant Masonic roots! ("Behold A Pale Horse", Bill Cooper)

 

The same seems to be true of high level politics. As the last days of this plan approaches, the Masonic connection becomes more important.

 

The Illinois Senator has the Trilateral Commission founder as his Foreign Policy adviser and a Skull & Bonesman as his financial adviser because he is, first and foremost, a Mason.

 

If Senator Obama is planned to be the next President of the United States, he will join a list of Masons since World War II to hold that office, and the fifth in a row!

 

1) Gerald Ford

 

2) Ronald Reagan -- Made an honorary Mason at the end of his second term

 

3) George H.W. Bush -- Member, Skull & Bones, a secret society steeped in Masonry

 

4) Bill Clinton -- Member of Demolay

 

5) George W. Bush -- Member, Skull & Bones

 

Now you know the full truth!

 

II. Consistent with Masonic Ecumenical belief, Senator Obama reveres and worships Hindu gods!

 

NEWS BRIEF: "Is Obama devotee of monkey-god idol?", World Net Daily, June 27, 2008

 

"A group of Hindus in India have presented Sen. Barack Obama's campaign with a two-foot Hindu monkey-god idol after hearing the candidate carries a smaller version of the Lord Hanuman good-luck charm with him as he vies for the presidency."

 

Notice that Senator Obama carried with him a small replica of the Hindu monkey-god idol as he campaigned for the Presidency! This means that Obama is looking to this small Hindu god as a talisman, which is an object charged with protecting the wearer!

 

"Earlier this week, according to reports in India, Obama representative Carolyn Sauvage-Mar accepted the gold-plated statue, promising to pass it on to the candidate after is it sanctified through ritual Hindu prayers."

 

" ' The idol is being presented to Obama as he is reported to be a Lord Hanuman devotee and carries with him a locket of the monkey god along with other good luck charms', reported the Times of India."

 

As the above quote indicates from Obama representative Carolyn Sauvage-Mar, the Illinois Senator was pleased and honored by receiving this Hindu idol as a gift.

 

" 'Obama has deep faith in Lord Hanuman, and that is why we are presenting an idol of Hanuman to him', said Bhama. Accepting the souvenir, Sauvage-Mar, chairwoman of Democrats Abroad-India, said, 'Obama has extended his thanks for the support'."

 

Barack Obama will receive this idol just in time to give him "good luck" in the Democrat National Convention in Denver!

 

"The idol will be kept at the temple for 11 days and then sent to the U.S. It will reach Obama by Aug. 24 – a day before the Democratic National Convention opens in Denver."

 

We should not be surprised that Obama reveres a Hindu god, even though he has professed that he is a Christian and prays to Jesus every day. How can we reconcile this apparent contradiction?

 

We can understand this "paradox" when we read Masonic literature and discover that Masons have always revered the gods of other religions. Let us quickly examine the pertinent passage in a Masonic Bible, which I have on my shelf.

 

"No Mason needs to be told what a place of honor the Bible has in Masonry. One of the great Lights in the Order, it lies open upon the altar at the center of the Lodge ... Thus, by the very honor which Masonry pays to the Bible, it teaches us to revere every book of faith in which men find help for today and hope for the morrow, joining hands with the man of Islam as he take oath upon the Koran and with the Hindu, as he makes covenant with God upon the book he loves best ... religions are one, but Religion is one --- Therefore, it invites to its altar men of all faiths, knowing that, if they use different names for the 'Nameless One of a hundred names', that they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all." ("The Words Of A Great Masonic Divine, R.W. and Rev. Joseph Fort Newton, 'The Bible In Masonry', p. 3-4, The Masonic Bible, A.J. Holman Company, 1968)

 

Therefore, you can understand how Obama could depend upon a talisman/amulet of a Hindu god for protection, at the same time he says he prays to Jesus daily! Now you can understand how Obama can say that Christians and Muslims pray to the same god, just as our current Skull & Bones President has repeated on a number of occasions!

 

Senator Barack Obama is 32nd Degree Mason, and that tells us all we need to know!

[ivan]

another dead american hero?