flag@whitehouse.gov

[Fairweather]

bullshit. don't buy into the republican agenda. the issue is as clear as ever: a public option.

 

Bullshit. This is a clear move toward a single payer, government takeover. Listen to Barney Frank below and tell me otherwise. People rightly get pissed off when they are lied to repeatedly by Obama and their congressional representatives at these so-called town hall meetings. Questioning your rep is democracy at its finest, IMO. This bullshit plan will not fly.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

Barney Frank is a douche, I'll grant you that much.

[Fairweather]

Can you honestly say you believe that Obama's proposal to set up a government option which will directly compete with and undercut private sector insurance isn't just a "first step"--as Barney admits? And where are the details? What's covered? Lipo? Abortion? ACL repair? What's not? Quadruple bypass for an 80 year old? Lifetime care for a child with CF? Who's covered? Illegals? Where's the money going to come from? I like my insurance coverage. I work hard for it. Is my company going to dump its employees onto the government? Any why the big hurry? Is it really that hard to understand why people want some answers? Is it really that hard to understand why rumors (and anger) would so easily supplant Obama's lack of candor and specificity? He's lying--and everyone knows it.

[prole]

He's lying--and everyone knows it.

 

[Fairweather]

Care to address any of my points--or Barney's admission?

[Kimmo]

prole is the lefty answer to kkk. and i say this as someone who's seemingly more in agreement with his sentiments than not.

[StevenSeagal]

Can you honestly say you believe that Obama's proposal to set up a government option that will directly compete with and undercut private sector insurance isn't just a "first step"--as Barney admits? And where are the details? What's covered? Lipo? Abortion? ACL repair? What's not? Quadruple bypass for an 80 year old? Lifetime care for a child with CF? Who's covered? Illegals? I like my insurance coverage. Is my company going to dump its employees onto the government? Any why the big hurry? Is it really that hard to understand why people want some answers? Is it really that hard to understand why rumors would supplant Obama's lack of candor and specificity?

 

Legitimate questions, all.

While you and many others may like your current coverage, the fact remains that the status quo cannot continue- costs are outrageous. I don't really know how a public option will play out; I think by itself a public option alongside all the existing private options might work for everyone, but if it's really the "first step" then that might be a problem, because I don't think eradicating private sector coverage would be a good thing at all. More to the point the current system of total control by powerful insurance companies isn't in our best long term interest, nor is an entirely government controlled system. But the way we are going, the former is what we're going to keep on getting if current reforms are defeated. When they are- you watch. I almost guarantee that insurance premiums, along with costs, will go through the roof. Because they can.

 

As a dyed in the wool conservative, who is happy with his coverage, I'm curious if you there is any problem at all, and if so, what do you think should be done to fix it?

[prole]

You don't have any points, you don't have any questions. I don't have a problem with Frank's so-called "admission". Is there some smoking gun here that I'm not seeing? You must be kidding! I'm in favor of single-payer, there's a significant number of American that are. I don't give a flying fuck if for-profit private insurance companies are undercut by a government program that competes with them. They are criminals. The health-care system in this country is circling the bowl because of them. Is this news?

[StevenSeagal]

Also, I might add that the democrats biggest problem is once again made obvious: they encompass such a wide variety of views within their party that when they get into power, all they do is fight amongst each other in addition to having to fight with conservatives, and so nothing is accomplished. Despite your assertion that Obama is "lying", I think Obama is one of the more honest and straightforward members of his party. It's the Pelosi/Frank/Reid juggernaut of ideology that is the achilles heel of the dems and in the end will be their downfall.

[StevenSeagal]

You don't have any points, you don't have any questions. I don't have a problem with Frank's so-called "admission". Is there some smoking gun here that I'm not seeing? You must be kidding! I'm in favor of single-payer, there's a significant number of American that are. I don't give a flying fuck if for-profit private insurance companies are undercut by a government program that competes with them. They are criminals. The health-care system in this country is circling the bowl because of them. Is this news?

 

Theoretically, "competition" should be healthy and spur a better product, especially from the private sector if capitalist ideology is at all correct. What the private sector is pissed about is that a single payer would stifle the expansion of the tyranny they have enjoyed for so long via the total lack of oversight and regulation.

 

I want to see both options, bring on the competition! The more the better.

[Fairweather]

You don't have any points, you don't have any questions. I don't have a problem with Frank's so-called "admission". Is there some smoking gun here that I'm not seeing? You must be kidding! I'm in favor of single-payer, there's a significant number of American that are. I don't give a flying fuck if for-profit private insurance companies are undercut by a government program that competes with them. They are criminals. The health-care system in this country is circling the bowl because of them. Is this news?

 

Just because you're in a big hurry to have the hand of collective government shoved up your ass doesn't also give you and yours the right to prescribe the same for the 84% of Americans who currently have insurance coverage. I see single payer as a confiscation and am willing to fight (politically or physically) it. If so-called progressives want to tax and buy insurance for citizens who are un(der) insured--fine. But my "side" isn't going to stand for single payer or anything that points us down that road.

[No. 13 Baby]

I see single payer as a confiscation and am willing to fight (politically or physically) it.

 

From Rush's lips to the confused, angry white guys' ears. baa

[KaskadskyjKozak]

prole is the lefty answer to kkk. and i say this as someone who's seemingly more in agreement with his sentiments than not.

 

STFU, "kimmo" - you don't know me from Adam.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Can you honestly say you believe that Obama's proposal to set up a government option that will directly compete with and undercut private sector insurance isn't just a "first step"--as Barney admits? And where are the details? What's covered? Lipo? Abortion? ACL repair? What's not? Quadruple bypass for an 80 year old? Lifetime care for a child with CF? Who's covered? Illegals? I like my insurance coverage. Is my company going to dump its employees onto the government? Any why the big hurry? Is it really that hard to understand why people want some answers? Is it really that hard to understand why rumors would supplant Obama's lack of candor and specificity?

 

Legitimate questions, all.

While you and many others may like your current coverage, the fact remains that the status quo cannot continue- costs are outrageous. I don't really know how a public option will play out; I think by itself a public option alongside all the existing private options might work for everyone, but if it's really the "first step" then that might be a problem, because I don't think eradicating private sector coverage would be a good thing at all. More to the point the current system of total control by powerful insurance companies isn't in our best long term interest, nor is an entirely government controlled system. But the way we are going, the former is what we're going to keep on getting if current reforms are defeated. When they are- you watch. I almost guarantee that insurance premiums, along with costs, will go through the roof. Because they can.

 

As a dyed in the wool conservative, who is happy with his coverage, I'm curious if you there is any problem at all, and if so, what do you think should be done to fix it?

 

Why not regulate the insurance industry instead of supplanting it? Start by mandating conversion to non-profit status.

 

[akhalteke]

it's not like it's gonna be friend to friend email that's being "reported" here, it's gonna be mass emailings funded by those wanting the system to stay the same.

 

You think that Obama doesn't have his own money dumptrucks?

http://www.wral.com/news/political/story/5754521/

 

Furthermore, how do we know these mailings aren't used for other purposes? Do you really think that the government cannot find MASS e-mailings and MASS media attempts on their own?

 

If they cannot, why in the hell would we trust them to take care of our health care?

 

[Kimmo]

Why not regulate the insurance industry instead of supplanting it? Start by mandating conversion to non-profit status.

 

that might not be a bad idea. i think switzerland's doing it very well....

 

 

STFU, "kimmo" - you don't know me from Adam.

 

hey if you act like an ass and ignore people's legit points whilst simply calling them vulgur names (what would your children think?), yer gonna get blowback, alphie.

[Doug]

You don't have any points, you don't have any questions. I don't have a problem with Frank's so-called "admission". Is there some smoking gun here that I'm not seeing? You must be kidding! I'm in favor of single-payer, there's a significant number of American that are. I don't give a flying fuck if for-profit private insurance companies are undercut by a government program that competes with them. They are criminals. The health-care system in this country is circling the bowl because of them. Is this news?

 

Just because you're in a big hurry to have the hand of collective government shoved up your ass doesn't also give you and yours the right to prescribe the same for the 84% of Americans who currently have insurance coverage. I see single payer as a confiscation and am willing to fight (politically or physically) it. If so-called progressives want to tax and buy insurance for citizens who are un(der) insured--fine. But my "side" isn't going to stand for single payer or anything that points us down that road.

 

So you are presuming that those 84% are totally satisfied with their health care?

 

Its too bad that this issue is political. There are insurance companies whose own thirst for profits and "shareholder value" have driven the cost of health care out of reach for some and more expensive than before for others. Unfortunately there are probably equal numbers who get substandard health care as a result of this as there are people who defraud those insurance companies on a daily basis.

 

So is a single payer system the answer? Probably not. Is the way we have been going the answer? Probably not. I don't have the answer, but firing shots at those who are trying doesn't seem like a good one to me.

 

For the record, I'm marginally satisfied with my coverage; but very grateful for it.

[j_b]

Theoretically, "competition" should be healthy and spur a better product, especially from the private sector if capitalist ideology is at all correct. What the private sector is pissed about is that a single payer would stifle the expansion of the tyranny they have enjoyed for so long via the total lack of oversight and regulation.

 

I want to see both options, bring on the competition! The more the better.

 

"In the past 13 years more than 400 corporate mergers have involved health insurers, and a small number of companies now dominate local markets. The American Medical Association reports that 94 percent of insurance markets in the United States are now highly concentrated."

 

i.e. there is little to no competition in "free-market" healthcare. "Free markets" lead to monopolies who can control prices as they wish. Once again, the proof is in the pudding, applying free-market ideology leads to anything but "free" markets.

 

 

[Fairweather]

Its too bad that this issue is political.

 

I don't have the answer, but firing shots at those who are trying doesn't seem like a good one to me.

 

For the record, I'm marginally satisfied with my coverage; but very grateful for it.

 

How could this issue not be political? Not you necessarily, but I just love the way lefties formulate their grand utopian dreams, expect them to function without any real plan, and then get upset when the people ask some pretty basic questions and don't just roll over. As for firing shots, yes. Someone is trying to steal something I currently have and lying about their motives. Unless this thing is scaled back dramatically, I expect the town hall shouting may very well escalate.

 

Again:

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[j_b]

I see single payer as a confiscation and am willing to fight (politically or physically) it. If so-called progressives want to tax and buy insurance for citizens who are un(der) insured--fine. But my "side" isn't going to stand for single payer or anything that points us down that road.

 

The conservative extremists who make up the "news" on the tube are now suggesting to the lunatic fringe to threaten violence in order to oppose policy changes wanted by at least 65% of americans. It is obviously working on the wingnut base. Folks, these are the same people who spent the last 8 years looking for violent opposition to their policies in order to demonize their opponents and looking for terrorists in everybodies' closet.

 

"The Town Hall Mob

by Paul Krugman

 

There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.

 

That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.

 

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

 

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

 

So this is something new and ugly. What’s behind it?

 

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, has compared the scenes at health care town halls to the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000 — the demonstration that disrupted the vote count in Miami and arguably helped send George W. Bush to the White House. Portrayed at the time as local protesters, many of the rioters were actually G.O.P. staffers flown in from Washington.

 

But Mr. Gibbs is probably only half right. Yes, well-heeled interest groups are helping to organize the town hall mobs. Key organizers include two Astroturf (fake grass-roots) organizations: FreedomWorks, run by the former House majority leader Dick Armey, and a new organization called Conservatives for Patients’ Rights.

 

The latter group, by the way, is run by Rick Scott, the former head of Columbia/HCA, a for-profit hospital chain. Mr. Scott was forced out of that job amid a fraud investigation; the company eventually pleaded guilty to charges of overbilling state and federal health plans, paying $1.7 billion — yes, that’s “billion” — in fines. You can’t make this stuff up.

 

[..]"

 

More: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/07-1

[j_b]

Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

By Brian Beutler - August 7, 2009, 2:20PM

Based on the news that health care events are edging into violence, an anti-health care reform protester in New Mexico named Scott Oskay is calling on his hundreds of online followers to bring firearms to town halls, and to 'badly hurt' SEIU and ACORN counter protesters.

 

Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

[KaskadskyjKozak]

hey if you act like an ass and ignore people's legit points whilst simply calling them vulgur names (what would your children think?), yer gonna get blowback, alphie.

 

right back at you "ass"

 

and go blow someone else...

 

p.s. it's vulgar. I thought you were a master at multisyllable words?

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For the record, I'm marginally satisfied with my coverage; but very grateful for it.

 

the health care industry is a behemoth. rapid, massive change will only fuck it up in different ways, probably netting a worse outcome (more expensive, worse average care). you need to fix things incrementally, in small doses

 

unfortunately, that requires patience, restraint, and a while to see the benefits.

 

politicians are looking for a fast-track to pass the legislation so they can get reelected, and people are looking for instant-gratification/relief

 

 

[pigchampion]

it's not fair that we have to pay for our medical insurance, americans work way to hard. i think the government would do a better job running our lives if you ask me.

[No. 13 Baby]

At least the confused angry mobs of white folks are well informed:

 

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex.

 

An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did.

 

Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.