Sport vs Trad

[pigchampion]

i'm with kimmo, bolt it all and fuck tradition. there are no rules in climbing, only the rules that others impose and the rules we chose to follow. kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

 

wasn't bachar that dude who wore socks under his rockclimbing shoes?

[Ponderosa]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

 

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

 

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

 

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

Edited August 9, 2009 by pigchampion

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

Edited August 9, 2009 by pigchampion

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

[video:youtube]bQQCPrwKzdo

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

[video:youtube]bQQCPrwKzdo

[video:youtube]8k3AH0_N_Ec

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

[video:youtube]bQQCPrwKzdo

[video:youtube]8k3AH0_N_Ec

[video:youtube]Zjm00iaj3II

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

[video:youtube]bQQCPrwKzdo

[video:youtube]8k3AH0_N_Ec

[video:youtube]Zjm00iaj3II

[video:youtube]9ZVxZn8tSwQ

[pigchampion]

kimmo is saying as long as you're a good dad and don't try to rise to excellence, integrity is merely a sign of ignorance.

 

Are you trying to paraphrase Shaw?

 

...or simply claiming great integrity?

[video:youtube]iMTNT_BzkdA

[video:youtube]5LxC3M-Yngs

[video:youtube]gB4MNu6W9sg

[video:youtube]dE9cWIVnR6A

[video:youtube]VvcohzJvviQ

[video:youtube]bQQCPrwKzdo

[video:youtube]8k3AH0_N_Ec

[video:youtube]Zjm00iaj3II

[video:youtube]9ZVxZn8tSwQ

[video:youtube]9wFuiMvuazI

[Choada_Boy]

and that miserable SOB who calls himself ChodaBoy. I'm ready to assign Kimmo to your squad but he deserves 1/2 a chance to demonstrate that I've misjudged him.

 

Cool! I've been assigned to a squad! And I make Pope sad, too. Don't cry little buddy. No more tears. I promise to dedicate the next bolted rap station I put in in a previously pristine alpine location to your cause: purity of spirit.

 

Hey Pope! Why don't you post another photo TR consisting of the Zeroxed polaroids Unidawg took of you freebasing "Resting On My Laurels" back in the '80s, when the world had it's shit together and climbers were for REALZ, when a true man like yourself had the brass balls to insult people to their faces and not anonymously over the yet undeveloped Intertubes.

 

In all seriousness, though, you and Unidawg should just keep on keepin' on. The world needs washed up bitches.

[pope]

Prior to this post and the one you made immediately after, I thought you were just a harmless, fun guy with a big mouth. Now I think you're either ignorant or a real prick. Whether Bachar intended it (and I assume he did), the statement made by his solo of Father Figure, as interpreted by most, was that the traditional approach to climbing is superior. One could climb hard numbers, in more control and with greater safety by investing the time to learn the ground-up approach. Bachar was well beyond his prime at this point and yet he made child's play out of Cosgrove's route, making every move static. This was a demonstration of excellence, an inspiration and example of what's possible when climbers are willing to focus their efforts instead of taking the most expedient, most convenient way, wilderness be damned. The route, BTW, is short and includes maybe only four bolts. Would have made for an excellent top-rope climb and provided enjoyment equal to what the sport version offers.

 

I was certainly amazed by Bachar's solo ascents. Who wasn't? More impressive to me is that he resisted rap bolting and sport climbing, in an attempt to preserve what was great about American rock climbing and avoid the eventual and predictable grid bolting we see today. In retrospect, he sacrificed his professional career by choosing to do the right thing.

 

hey fanboi, you are an ignorant fool who lives in a fantasy world. get a life already, seriously.

 

who gives a flying fuck what bachar did or any fucker did with climbing? do your own damn thing and enjoy it, instead of speculating about other climbers and their motivations. for all i know, bachar was an arrogant prick back in his heyday, only concerned about one-up-manship and the like; it seems like he changed, but i really don't give a damn (about him as a climber; him as a father and a human being: that's a different story).

 

go ahead and live in 1972 or 1690 or whatever fuck year you worship, but quite honestly i'm tired of hearing about your uphill walks to school through snow in both directions.

 

I brought up Bachar as a response to those who suggested sport climbing was necessary to get strong and climb stiff grades. Bachar (among others) clearly demonstrated that the idea is false.

[pope]

BTW, impressive pervasion of F-bombs in that post......thought I was back at the high school.

[pope]

I'm ready to assign Kimmo to your squad but he deserves 1/2 a chance to demonstrate that I've misjudged him.

 

you have a wayyyyy over-blown sense of self-importance, fanboi.

 

I know, I know....I wouldn't wanna be associated with most of the A-holes in this thread either, but your contributions to this thread do little to distinguish you from them.

[billcoe]

Since Dawg seems to be avoiding discussing my response to his post, I'm left reflecting if it might be time to post a few more Lil Dawg pics? Of course the answer is self-evident to all:-)

 

Dude...you're very needy. Do you really think that responding to your antagonistic posts is my priority? Sorry, I'm working.

And on top of that, half of the time you act like you want to be my pal and the other half you're pissing on me. (or more like 1/3rd, 2/3rd's).

I ain't got time for the drama and I'm not interesting in playing "the game".

So, contact me some other time if you want to be nice.

 

aloha,

 

- don

 

Well, the only reason I'm even hanging around today is because I'm so trashed from installing 24 bolts on the first pitch of a new route at Cathedral Formation yesterday. There's no cracks there so I don't expect you to ever show up. It's some great great climbing. I'm so beat that a buddy called this am to go lap an easy crack route and I was too tired. That and the bathtub is leaking and my wife wants it fixed. You want to see pictures? Of course you do.

This is @ 3/4 of the way up the first pitch. There's another @ 200' of cliff or so above this. The belay is @20' just over the hump of rock above the climber in this pic.

I'm counting the 2 holes for the anchor, there was really only 21 bolts on the route.

 

Here's the anchor and there's one more 1/2 x 6-1/4 higher for a redirect for the belay/1st piece 2nd pitch.

 

 

 

Look, I climbed with a great guy for 25 years solid and we disagreed about all kinds of shit. Lots more than this little tempest in a teapot. Even the American irrigation system and federal Bureau of Reclamation involvement thereof raged deeply between us, for instance, and it never ever got in the way of us climbing together and drinking a beer afterwards, nor does it change that I was right and he was wrong (just like in this case with you as well LOL), yet we examined and discussed our opposing views for many long hours on trips.

 

I'm not advocating grid bolting, but bolts have their place. I was thinking that in this case, the best example of why you're full of shit beans is seen at Smith Rock. One of the best routes in this state and my Smith favorite is Zebra/Zion. 4 great pitches of predominantly crack. When this was led, there were no trails on the ground to access it, and you needed a raft to get across the river in the spring if you wanted to climb. Later, when the bridge and trails were put in, some folks bolted some lines to the left. Those routes are close together, 5 gallon buckets, 10 gallon buckets etc etc etc. For myself, I've done them, but generally don't enjoy the climbing: I'd rather climb cracks than bolted faces so I almost always walk past unless a buddy is climbing and wants to talk, and then perhaps I'll lap something to be social, hang out and visit. But it's always crowded there and they are short little routes. It's crowded because that is what OTHERS like to climb. Not me, as short little bolted faces are unappealing ascetically, but OTHERS. However in no way of any sort does the "grid bolted" newer routes change the fact that you or I can walk right up to Zion: best damn route in the State, with our gear racks and climb it.

 

All your opposition to those who enjoy those bolted routes shows everyone else here is an intolerance of others and a self-centered selfishness on your part. The park is for peoples enjoyment, and 90 percent of them do. When they put in a trail here or in the gorge it's so people can better enjoy it. They won't change park policy just because you don't like it. I'm speaking only for Smith on the bolts. As other have said, different areas have different traditions as locals have evolved them and we should respect local tradition. Beacon is a park as well, and the cracks are so close together that bolts on aretes would often have a materially negative effect on the crack that is 2-3 feet away. So the traditions, mentality, and in fact actual policy has developed differently. That's a good thing. For you to take what you want and blanket it for everywhere is just wrong. The bottom line is the fact that you get your panties in a bunch and don't like it is just too damn F*ing bad for you. Stop being so damn selfish and self-centered.

 

 

ps, Lil Hitler says send the bear with the rainbows over cause he want's to do nasty things to her.

BAD lil Hitler, BAD!

[StevenSeagal]

 

I brought up Bachar as a response to those who suggested sport climbing was necessary to get strong and climb stiff grades. Bachar (among others) clearly demonstrated that the idea is false.

 

Bullshit. What Bachar demonstrated was what an incredibly bold and driven person can do in face of perilous risk. Bachar was an anomaly, I doubt we'll see another like him. Most people aren't even close to his league and never will be.

 

You brought him up because you've done some bold climbing and soloing of your own and your point is "climbing should only be for the boldest and bravest among us....like me".

 

Pure ego driven religious proselytization at it's best.

 

 

[Kimmo]

Bachar was an anomaly, I doubt we'll see another like him. Most people aren't even close to his league and never will be.

 

fanboi.

[Kimmo]

but even if it f'in matters, croft was there with seemingly way less ego.

 

and i loved michael reardon, rip. effin fanboi.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Kimmo

[Kimmo]

I brought up Bachar as a response to those who suggested sport climbing was necessary to get strong and climb stiff grades. Bachar (among others) clearly demonstrated that the idea is false.

 

who suggested sport climbing was "necessary" to get strong? you evidently know very little about the game, NOR what bachar was doing to get "strong".

 

what's funny is that i think bachar moved on, and you seem to be stuck admiring him circa 1975.

[StevenSeagal]

Bachar was an anomaly, I doubt we'll see another like him. Most people aren't even close to his league and never will be.

 

fanboi.

 

quiet! I'm trying to forge common ground with pope.

 

So FOAD! (i don't really mean that kimmo, I'm just trying to bond with kkkkk too)

[Bug]

Jeeze.

I go climbing and come back and you guys have been bitchin at each other the whole time.

It's the weekend.

 

Oh, by the way. I met a guy by Bears Breast who said he used to like this site until it became dominated by sport climbers.

Another eletist old fart.

I sure do meet a lot of those.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So I'm left to discern that I'm not "qualified" in your eyes to comment on this topic simply because my view differs on the matter,

 

 

Exactly.

 

Either agree with Raindawg and Pope, or STFU, because you are "unqualified" to participate in the "discussion" (what a misnomer). As I said before, these fanatics can not comprehend how they can clearly be so RIGHT in such a clear-cut position as theirs - one for which there is no other possible valid position to have. So, STFU, everyone, listen to what Dawg and Pope have to say (yet again), kow-tow, kiss their feet (and ass) and agree with them absolutely. That's your choice. Allah akbar!

 

 

 

 

 

[Frenchy]

FAP?