So You Wanna be a Mountie….

[G-spotter]

It sounds like Saturday around midnight at the crag the Mounties were swarming is a good place to score some booty?

[olyclimber]

Either there or at the Mountie campfire.

 

Anyway, I thought for some reason that the mounties were moving away from having such large groups all together in one place? Maybe its just because they consider the crag different from the alpine? Perhaps either my source or my mind are malfunctional.

 

[olyclimber]

Or maybe it was just that they didn't have to wear gaiters to bouldering class so something...

[JayB]

If the message that casual readers of this thread take home is that the Bend features nothing but chossy, overgrown mank, then...hooray.

[Pete_H]

I think its ridiculous how in the Mounties most instructors have barely more experience than the students. Sketchy!

[sobo]

I am trying like the dickens to figure out where you were standing to take this picture and have it be at the Royal Columns. I have spent years climbing there and don't recall any tufted pillar tops, huge horizontal crack at mid-cliff height, and slope/terrain aspect that this picture indicates.

 

For instance...

1) RC faces predominantly to the northwest. With the sun hitting the cliff top obliquely from climber's left as shown, this would indicate that the sun is practically northeast of the crag. You would have to be climbing in pretty much mid-winter (and in another hemisphere) to even get close to approaching that aspect. In late May/early June, the sun would arrive on the face from the right (southwest), not the left.

 

2) The rock shape and its color aren't right, either. RC is formed in columnar basalt (andesite) of regular dimensions, not this blocky shite. And the Tim Pond Wall has a bit o' green on it, but not Royal Columns proper. And that reddish tint... WTF??

 

3) And then there's the issue of those grassy pillar tops. I can't recall a single such tuffet upon which Miss Muffet might park her ass and chow down...

 

4) And another thing, the top of RC doesn't break over abruptly like that. The top of RC's slope eases back and the top is littered with rock outcrops and sagebrush. This pic looks more like the top of some cliff at Frenchman's or sumpin'.

 

5) Lastly, there's the issue of this ~30* slope that you're standing upon to shoot the picture. The approach trail takes you to the base of the cliff from the far right hand side and behind an elk fence, and there is a pretty steep drop-off below the cliff base trail that this picture does not suggest is present. So where is this, Dave?

[Pete_H]

Looks like a Photoshop job. Clearly part of the government's plan to discredit the Mounties. Nice work uncovering this conspiracy, Sobo!

[catbirdseat]

That looks like Zig Zag Wall at Vantage to me.

[mkporwit]

Yep, that's Zig Zag wall from a month ago -- Everett's Leading on Rock class uses that on the first day of field trip two, precisely because it is not a terribly popular crag and we can have the 8-10 students plus 8-10 instructors there and not bother anyone...

[sobo]

Ah ha! It wasn't at RC! Mythbusters unite!

 

[tomtom]

I think its ridiculous how in the Mounties most instructors have bairly more experience than the students. Sketchy!

In medical school education, it's called see one, do one, teach one.

[XXX]

The mounties is filled with people who were geeks and nerds in their previous life so they feel the need to control and make themselves feel important.

 

That being said they provide a good service to those in the community who want to start climbing in a safe manner.

[olyclimber]

it arguable whether is safer or not, but they do provide a place for singles to mingle!

 

can any mounties that post here comment on the "evolution" of mountie coursework? or does that vary by instructor?

[Pete_H]

I think its ridiculous how in the Mounties most instructors have bairly more experience than the students. Sketchy!

In medical school education, it's called see one, do one, teach one.

 

Not really. It may make sense to have a sophomore-level Mountie teach others how to tie knots or something, but not to lead a whole climbing class. Essentially its the equivalent of putting a med student who just watched a video on how to perform a triple bypass in charge of a real operation.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Not really. It may make sense to have a sophomore-level Mountie teach others how to tie knots or something, but not to lead a whole climbing class.

 

That's exactly how it works, dude. New instructors do not "lead a whole climbing class".

 

[j_b]

I doubt that 2nd year students lead whole climbing classes very often if ever. The advantage of having a larger group is that experienced idividuals can be in charge without having to micromanage.

[olyclimber]

The advantage of a larger group is that you can totally draft off the peloton of climbers and climb at a level higher than you normally could by yourself. There is also the "gang" mentality about it. You're a part of something.

[AlpineK]

My experience as an Intermediate was to help instruct a small part of a larger basic class in things like use of prusiks, traveling on steep snow, top roping, and some more. On Basic climbs I would lead one rope team.

 

In all cases I was playing a small part in a larger group.

 

Eventually as an Intermediate you need to be in charge of a whole group for a couple climbs, but I lost interest in the Mounties well before I would have completed all the requirements to be a group leader.

[summerprophet]

I have been on both sides of the coin. Not as a mounty (thank god), but as a climbing guide, and as a regular climber impacted by large groups.

 

Personally I have always tried to make our impact minimal, firstly by avoiding the hugely popular areas, and secondly by minimizing group size AS REQUIRED IF PROFESSIONALLY GUIDING.

 

Mounties are staffed by volenteers, and I am guessing group size is up to administration, and not up to the trip leaders.

 

I am gratefull to the mounties for their publications. The guidebooks, how-to books, and certainly FOTH, are of good quality if not great, and very few out there can deny that FOTH is the veritable bible of mountaineering.

 

My first hand experience with the mounties has been that THEY SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I have been the witness of unroped people inside crevasses at midday, two young ladies hanging of a single loose ring angle piton THAT I HAD GONE TO REMOVE DUE TO THE HAZARD, and single cam as a multi-pitch anchor.

 

My impression of the mounties is that the classroom demonstrates everything is what should be done per accepted textbooks, while the field instructors toss all that shit out the window, and do things as they see fit.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

My first hand experience with the mounties has been that THEY SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I have been the witness of unroped people inside crevasses at midday, two young ladies hanging of a single loose ring angle piton THAT I HAD GONE TO REMOVE DUE TO THE HAZARD, and single cam as a multi-pitch anchor.

 

I have never seen any of this.

 

My impression of the mounties is that the classroom demonstrates everything is what should be done per accepted textbooks, while the field instructors toss all that shit out the window, and do things as they see fit.

 

 

Your impression is completely wrong.

 

[eldiente]

For these larger groups I don't understand why they can't hire more guides so there is a guide for every student? Cost prohibitive?

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For these larger groups I don't understand why they can't hire more guides so there is a guide for every student? Cost prohibitive?

 

 

When I go out with beginners on rock, I prefer to have 4 people and the ratio for leaders:beginners is 1:1. When I go on an easy glacier climb it is usually 6 people, and the ratio is 1:2. When I go out with experienced folks it's 2-4 people for rock, and 3-4 people for glacier. I don't see any way around the slightly larger groups when beginners go.

 

[sobo]

For these larger groups I don't understand why they can't hire more guides so there is a guide for every student? Cost prohibitive?

I believe that you answered your own question.

The operative word here being "hire", which assumes that payment follows.

[catbirdseat]

My first hand experience with the mounties has been that THEY SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF ME. I have been the witness of unroped people inside crevasses at midday, two young ladies hanging of a single loose ring angle piton THAT I HAD GONE TO REMOVE DUE TO THE HAZARD, and single cam as a multi-pitch anchor.

 

My impression of the mounties is that the classroom demonstrates everything is what should be done per accepted textbooks, while the field instructors toss all that shit out the window, and do things as they see fit.

 

I have witnessed isolated instances of which you speak, but for the most part, and I speak for my own Branch of the Mountaineers, we are for the most part following accepted safe practices.

[j_b]

My impression of the mounties is that the classroom demonstrates everything is what should be done per accepted textbooks, while the field instructors toss all that shit out the window, and do things as they see fit.

 

This isn't my impression or my experience of Mutineer classes. If anything field leaders tend to stick to the book too much. The instruction programs constitute a very valuable service to the community.