US responsibility for mexico's hell...

[ivan]

nice to see us accepting the responsibility, now why don't we do something about it?

 

the last thing giant criminal drug-cartels want is the for their lucrative trade-item to be legalized - if we really want to destroy them and end the murder of cops and civilian bystanders and the corruption of local, state and national governments in damn near every country in the western hemisphere, why on earth would we NOT want to do just that?

 

legalizing all drugs certainly won't suddenly make the world a perfect place, it won't be a hippy-paradise, and surely there will be problems w/ addiction and under-age use, but how could they be worse than now? and certainly the other problems mentioned above will be improved, not to mention an increase in tax reciepts on the sale and the elimination of a very costly enforcement/incarceration system?

 

if this idea can't gain traction in these economic conditions, when could it?

Edited March 25, 2009 by ivan

[Hugh Conway]

fuck that I need cheap baja land to be able to retire

[KaskadskyjKozak]

fuck that I need cheap baja land to be able to retire

 

face down in cabo, kissing the ground?

[kevbone]

nice to see us accepting the responsibility, now why don't we do something about it?

 

 

legalizing all drugs certainly won't suddenly make the world a perfect place, it won't be a hippy-paradise, and surely there will be problems w/ addiction and under-age use, but how could they be worse than now? and certainly the other problems mentioned above will be improved, not to mention an increase in tax reciepts on the sale and the creation elimination of a very costly enforcement/incarceration system?

 

if this idea can't gain traction in these economic conditions, when could it?

 

:tup: :tup: :tup:

[pink]

fuck that I need cheap baja land to be able to retire

 

face down in cabo, kissing the ground?

 

 

face down, ass up and bugg eyed...

[ivan]

joe liebermann thinks it'll get better if we just spend more on border guards

[JayB]

 

The death toll in Mexico alone is appalling. Unfortunately, even if drugs were legalized tomorrow, the effect of drug-prohibition fueled corruption on their society would last for a generation, at minimum.

 

Given that alcohol Prohibition in this country is universally acknowledged to have spawned massive corruption, widespread organized crime, and an upsurge in violence, it's hard to understand why our long experiment with drug prohibition hasn't at least spawned a bit of reflection.

 

Seems like an issue that folks of a certain bent on both the left and the right could potentially rally around. Unfortunately - the prospect of using the state as the means of enforcing compliance with a particular vision of how everyone should live has proven too tantalizing for a majority on either side to sincerely embrace limitations on government that would check their own hands when they've got them on the levers or power.

[ivan]

 

The death toll in Mexico alone is appalling. Unfortunately, even if drugs were legalized tomorrow, the effect of drug-prohibition fueled corruption on their society would last for a generation, at minimum.

 

Given that alcohol Prohibition in this country is universally acknowledged to have spawned massive corruption, widespread organized crime, and an upsurge in violence, it's hard to understand why our long experiment with drug prohibition hasn't at least spawned a bit of reflection.

 

Seems like an issue that folks of a certain bent on both the left and the right could potentially rally around. Unfortunately - the prospect of using the state as the means of enforcing compliance with a particular vision of how everyone should live has proven too tantalizing for a majority on either side to sincerely embrace limitations on government that would check their own hands when they've got them on the levers or power.

so what, if anything, can be done to achieve a critical mass and stop this insanity? reagan's drug war is soon to enter its 3rd decade. why isn't there more international pressure? why don't the mexican and columbian governments in particuliar scream out against it?

[olyclimber]

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/mexicos_drug_war.html

[pink]

 

The death toll in Mexico alone is appalling. Unfortunately, even if drugs were legalized tomorrow, the effect of drug-prohibition fueled corruption on their society would last for a generation, at minimum.

 

Given that alcohol Prohibition in this country is universally acknowledged to have spawned massive corruption, widespread organized crime, and an upsurge in violence, it's hard to understand why our long experiment with drug prohibition hasn't at least spawned a bit of reflection.

 

Seems like an issue that folks of a certain bent on both the left and the right could potentially rally around. Unfortunately - the prospect of using the state as the means of enforcing compliance with a particular vision of how everyone should live has proven too tantalizing for a majority on either side to sincerely embrace limitations on government that would check their own hands when they've got them on the levers or power.

so what, if anything, can be done to achieve a critical mass and stop this insanity? reagan's drug war is soon to enter its 3rd decade. why isn't there more international pressure? why don't the mexican and columbian governments in particuliar scream out against it?

 

you mean nancy reagan's stupid side project...

 

tipper did the parental advisory deal....

 

can't wait to what michelle obamas side project, bet she'll team up with oprha or something...

[JayB]

 

The death toll in Mexico alone is appalling. Unfortunately, even if drugs were legalized tomorrow, the effect of drug-prohibition fueled corruption on their society would last for a generation, at minimum.

 

Given that alcohol Prohibition in this country is universally acknowledged to have spawned massive corruption, widespread organized crime, and an upsurge in violence, it's hard to understand why our long experiment with drug prohibition hasn't at least spawned a bit of reflection.

 

Seems like an issue that folks of a certain bent on both the left and the right could potentially rally around. Unfortunately - the prospect of using the state as the means of enforcing compliance with a particular vision of how everyone should live has proven too tantalizing for a majority on either side to sincerely embrace limitations on government that would check their own hands when they've got them on the levers or power.

so what, if anything, can be done to achieve a critical mass and stop this insanity? reagan's drug war is soon to enter its 3rd decade. why isn't there more international pressure? why don't the mexican and columbian governments in particuliar scream out against it?

 

The original prohibition movement morphed out of the "Progressive" crusade for temperance, etc, so I'd say that the first step is recognizing that both the left and the right have succumbed to the siren song of using the state as a means to impose their principles on society by force.

 

I think that when and if drug-prohibition ever gets rolled back it'll be when a coalition of odd bedfellows decide that they can advance their particular agenda in some small way by latching onto this crusade. Seems like there's enough to dislike about the current state of affairs to keep quite a few groups engaged enough to momentarily distract them from their distaste for one another.

 

 

[ivan]

i knew i didn't like this obama-feller!

[tvashtarkatena]

Nixon started the drug war, not Reagan, although the latter sure pumped up the volume.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i knew i didn't like this obama-feller!

 

Here's the rub:

"A CBS News poll last week showed that 38 percent of Americans favor legalizing and taxing marijuana, while 58 percent want it kept illegal."

 

Dumbasses. Cali alone could recoup over a billion in taxes.

 

[pink]

lets ban teleprompters.....

[Hugh Conway]

lets shoot pink

[ivan]

lets shoot pink

no, if we legalize drugs we'll need him to stimulate the economy!

[tvashtarkatena]

i knew i didn't like this obama-feller!

 

Here's the rub:

"A CBS News poll last week showed that 38 percent of Americans favor legalizing and taxing marijuana, while 58 percent want it kept illegal."

 

Dumbasses. Cali alone could recoup over a billion in taxes.

 

Like most bad polls, this one misleads because it doesn't offer the full range of possible answers, so it doesn't accurately reflect what's really going on.

 

In WA state, a third of voters believe pot should be illegal, a third believe our current policies don't work but don't know what to do about it, and a third believe pot should remain illegal. Educating that middle third as to the myths regarding the dangers of pot, and the reality of how damaging and expensive prohibition really is is the key to shifting attitudes towards decriminalization and eventual legalization. For example, most people arent' aware that 80,000 people are in prison right now for minor pot offenses, and that 800,000 people were arrested last year for the same. They are also not aware that the so called 'drug war' focuses on minor pot offenders, because they are the low hanging fruit in the arrest quota game. They're not aware that the greatest danger to their kids is posed by getting arrested for pot: loss of student loan, college acceptance, international travel, job opportunities; the sanctions are very serious for young folks just starting out in life. The myths about marijuana policy go on and on.

 

This probably reflects nationwide attitudes as well.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For example, most people arent' aware that 80,000 people are in prison right now for minor pot offenses, and that 800,000 people were arrested last year for the same.

 

I guess they haven't watched a single episode of "Cops"

[Hugh Conway]

I guess they haven't watched a single episode of "Cops"

 

thats like reading the collected posts of kevbone and bug

[tvashtarkatena]

For example, most people arent' aware that 80,000 people are in prison right now for minor pot offenses, and that 800,000 people were arrested last year for the same.

 

I guess they haven't watched a single episode of "Cops"

 

Nor have I.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For example, most people arent' aware that 80,000 people are in prison right now for minor pot offenses, and that 800,000 people were arrested last year for the same.

 

I guess they haven't watched a single episode of "Cops"

 

Nor have I.

 

Here's synopsis:

 

cop "Hello, do you know why I pulled you over?"

suspect "uhhh"

cop "Can I take a look in your car?"

suspect "uhh, ok"

cop "lookee what I found... you are under arrest"

 

[tvashtarkatena]

For example, most people arent' aware that 80,000 people are in prison right now for minor pot offenses, and that 800,000 people were arrested last year for the same.

 

I guess they haven't watched a single episode of "Cops"

 

Nor have I.

 

Here's synopsis:

 

cop "Hello, do you know why I pulled you over?"

suspect "uhhh"

cop "Can I take a look in your car?"

suspect "uhh, ok"

cop "lookee what I found... you are under arrest"

 

 

Sounds riveting.

Edited March 27, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[ivan]

absolute must listen to for you then tvash - cops is funnier than shit, w/ the properly bent-out philosophy of life you so cheerfully maintain - bill hicks, another dead hero!

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNLJIIXj3U

[j_b]

"Our insatiable demand for illegal drugs fuels the drug trade. Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the death of police officers, soldiers and civilians," Clinton told reporters during her flight to Mexico City

 

Aren't we also responsible for the weapons trade that enables these gangs to outgun the police?