Shop Screwup question

[Rotary786]

I recently had a shop mount my skis with a pair of Fritschi Freerides. When i got my ski they had mounted another customers Explorers on my skis and according to them my bindings on another customers skis. They also said that the other customer had left town which makes me worry that they could be skiing on my bindings. (they told me to go ahead and ski on the on the bindings I currently have as I had planned on skiing today). My biggest concern though is that remounting my bindings will use the same screw holes and risk being pulled out. From the shops I have been calling for opinions this seems to be a valid concern, and something that could seriously screw me if it happened in the backcountry. Anybody have any experience with this?

 

Thanks

[DirtyHarry]

Remounting bindings in the same holes isn't a problem at all. I wouldn't worry about it. If they have to drill new ones, theoretically it weakens the integrity of the ski, but in practice the only thing it effects is the aesthetics.

[shapp]

What shop so we can steer clear?

[Kat_Roslyn]

Freerides and explorers have the same hole pattern. There is actually one extra hole in the freeride plus, so more drilling shouldn't be an issue, They should have explained this to you.

You shouldn't be worried about it being remounted, sometimes with light wood skis it is often the case that the screw strips the ski very easily, ski techs know how to fix this properly.

[Jens]

You'll be fine.

 

What shop?

[Rotary786]

The shop was Berg's ski shop in Eugene. In addition to mounting the wrong bindings they also mounted centerline when I asked for 1.5cm back so I will have to drill a second set of holes. Overall I had a very poor experience with them on this as for quite some time they were unwilling to admit they had done anything wrong. Definitely steer clear.

[Guest Anonymous]

That is Unfortunate I used to go there a lot in the 1980s and 1990s and never had a problem

[Kit]

A couple of seasons back I bought a pair of BD Crossbows and BD O2 tele bindings at Mountain Gear in Spokane. The skis are left-and-right foot specific. The ski tech inadvertently mounted the left binding the right ski and the right binding to the left ski (!) I noticed this immediately when I picked them up and told them that this wasn't going to work. They told me that re-mounting them wouldn't be an issue at all, but I held the same concern as you about the reduced strength of the mount. I suggested that they give me a new pair since it was their fault, but they insisted re-mounting would come at no cost in terms of strength, so I relented.

 

About two weeks ago, one of the bindings pulled out (while climbing) near Herman Saddle.

 

Do the ski-tech types have any opinions about whether this might have been precipitated by the re-mount?

 

Luckily this didn't happen over a cliff or further in the backcountry. Still, I was left with a thigh-burning, unhappy mono-tele return trip, and an unsatisfactory response from Mountain Gear. They told me this just happens, and they weren't likely to do anything about it except try to remount them, and that I should bring them in. A 350 mile drive for me, to which they told me to ship them (very expensive). I gave up and bought new skis on sale from the bad guys at REI, where I would have expected service like this in the first place.

 

Hmmm... wonder how far to the car???

 

[ilookeddown]

That crossbow you had are a foam core and fairly thin top sheet. That said I used the same holes on a pair and never had a problem. But the shop did warn me this is not a good ski to do it on. I had dynafit not tele binding.

 

That does suck the shop would not fix address your concerns from the start. I feel if someone mis-drills they owe you new skis.

 

Now getting to having someone else on my bindings is totally wrong. I doubt you will get that binding back. The person who picked up the skis had to know the wrong bindings were on there. Who doesn't look at their stuff when they pick it up? I check the din, boot fit and mount position before I walk out the door.

[Rotary786]

Thats what i'm most worried about is it pulling out in the backcountry and having to skin home on one ski. In my mind its pretty ridiculous that they can screw up like that and then not take any responsibility for it, it was a fight to even get my money back.

 

ilooked,

I agree about somebody else having my binding. When I got my ski's I had said I was trying to ski the next day and they told me to go ahead and ski on the other guys bindings as they had been fit to my boot. Obviously I didn't do this but makes me wonder if some guy got some turns in on my binding. Pretty frustrating experience all around.

 

[Kit]

Well there you go Rotary. I assume you live close to Berg's. Take 'em back; make them start over. You don't want that nagging thought of weak mounts in the back of your mind every time you go into the backcountry.

 

Anyone think otherwise?

 

If I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd insist on new skis. Now I'm stuck a couple of seasons out and wondering if it was someone's carelessness that caused this. And Mountain Gear is putting the burden of proof on me. How could I prove it? I can't, and now I'm forking out for a new tele rig two seasons too early.

[jfs1978]

I gave up and bought new skis on sale from the bad guys at REI, where I would have expected service like this in the first place.

 

Odd. I'd expect much BETTER service at REI. A friend's skis were mis-drilled and they didn't even bat an eye when they figured it out. Chucked the screwed up skis and remounted on a new pair free of charge - no questions asked.

 

Who knows, maybe the shop-tech got an earful from the boss later...but they treated my buddy right.

 

Point being, I think that's the kind of treatment you should expect from a decent shop. Not the bs that Rotary got.

[Kit]

Yeah that came out a little harsh; my intent was not to flame REI employees. Let me clarify. What I get at REI is better policy, not necessarily better service.

 

Case in point: the skis I just bought to replace the busted Crossbows. I purchased them (Kilowatts) and they told me it would be five days to get them mounted with bindings that I brought in (7tm Power Tours). I said great, no problem. So on day 5, the ski tech calls me and we mutually decide he doesn't know whether he can properly mount them or not. Day 6, the master ski tech determines they need a shim that they don't stock. So on day six the parts to mount my skis are on order. Now its day 15 and I'm still waiting.

 

I'm not at all upset. I'm just saying, this is what I would expect from REI. Great great folks work there. Its just a bit of a lumbering giant, is all.

[steepconcrete]

i know thoes guys, i grew up in that store.

 

i dont know what is going on at bergs. last month i took my praxis and dukes in there to get mounted, and Chandler (the shop tech who fakked up your mount) wouldnt leave me alone trying to sell me new boots. i hadent heard from them so i went in 7 days later and they hadent even touched my skis, and they then hasseled me again about new boots. 3 days after that chandler calls telling me he is about to mount my skis and asks if am i sure i dont want to get new boots. his selling points are "my whole setup will be new, its also not a good idea to use old boots". my boots are 3 years old no worn toe or heel at all.

 

dont ski them, take them back and demand new skis and bindings. if they dont hook you up post this story on tgr, ttips, tay newschoolers...it was bergs mistake they are dicking you around.

 

if you have problems pm me

Edited February 26, 2009 by steepconcrete

[ClimbUp/SkiDown]

I work for a shop so here is my perspective:

 

Kit and Rotary, yes you can remount a binding in the same holes. Sure, it won't be as strong but that's why a competent tech would switch to a two part epoxy rather than standard mounting glue for the remount. The usual glue for everyday mounts is a fast setup equivalent to wood glue. Cheaper and sufficiently strong for fresh mounts in new holes. If the mounting holes are striped or the screws are removed, switching to the two part epoxy is always recommended and will hold just about anyone onto anything. And BD's foam core skis are notorious for pulling out even when mounted properly the first time.

 

To all: These are excellent cases for having a good repair kit with you. Do you have steel wool and a posi-drive bit driver to reattach the binding in that kit? It will get you out without the dreaded mono skin experience. I have BC skied for years and I have no one to blame but myself if something fails and I'm caught unprepared. And something will fail eventually. Sometimes day one, sometimes day 201 No matter who made it, who sold it, who used it, or who worked on it.

 

I have to defend Berg's here since they are a great shop and good people own and run it (I don't work there. I don't even live in Eugene.) As a tech, I get the other side of the story when it comes to customer issues. "I swear the ski just snapped in half as I was carrying it!" right... If literally their was nothing wrong with your' boots Steepconcrete than Chandler's actions were wrong. But think back, are you absolutely positive he didn't mention ANYTHING regarding toe height adjustments, rockered sole compatibility, binding sizing, or excessive boot wear that would affect your setup beyond just the toe and heel? In other words, are you sure their isn't anything else to the story?

[Rotary786]

my issue was their complete denial that they had done anything wrong. After learning of their mistake i called several ski shops and they all agreed that Berg's should be held liable if it did pull out, when I mentioned this to the tech in the shop his reply was "I didn't screw up somebody else did!", despite the fact it was somebody else from his shop. I finally realized that I wasn't going to get any help from them, and only after withholding the other guys bindings (that they mounted on my skis) was I able to receive a refund. I had nothing but positive experiences with bergs before this but that was definitely the last and only straw with them. It seems pretty ridiculous to screw up like this and then not be held liable for it at all.

[scheissami]

Newbie question here, but ClimbUp/SkiDown, how do you fix a pulled binding with steel wool? Is there some backcountry repair reference guide you've read? I'm a snowboarder slowly (and painfully) learning to ski in the backcountry and would appreciate the info...

 

Cheers.

[ClimbUp/SkiDown]

It's not a total fix, but steel wool in the binding hole essentially acts to fill some of the gap left by the wood/foam/titinal/plastic (whatever latest craze the industry puts under foot) that has stripped out or been pulled out and allows the screws to bite and holed... to a degree. I'm not sure if it works for metal threaded inserts like on a snowboard deck or K2 tele skies, but I'm sure in pinch it will at least allow the screw to sink into something for an emergency evac

[Kit]

Climbup, your insight is much appreciated.

 

Can you post a link to a posidrive gadget you refer to? I'd love to bolster what I thought was a fairly complete binding repair kit (good for everything but mounting failure). And, I'll get to practice it's use on my blown out Crossbows.

 

Edit: Okay so I assume the posidrive bit is just the name for the binding screwdriver. So I take it you just cram a wad of steel wool in the blown out hole, screw the binding in, and hope it holds enough to get you out?

Edited March 6, 2009 by Kit

[steepconcrete]

If literally their was nothing wrong with your' boots Steepconcrete than Chandler's actions were wrong. But think back, are you absolutely positive he didn't mention ANYTHING regarding toe height adjustments, rockered sole compatibility, binding sizing, or excessive boot wear that would affect your setup beyond just the toe and heel? In other words, are you sure their isn't anything else to the story?

 

when i first came in i expressed my intent on putting tull tilt race tongues and booster straps on my new old stock denali xt's with maybe 20 days on em, bindings were marker dukes. i asked if he had any in stock and asked how much they would charge for the work (i had intended to do it myself, but thought if it was cheap enuf...)

 

anyhow he goes on to tell me that my boots are way too soft and anything i do won't fix that. ive been on denali xt's for the past 6 years. i appeased him and listened to his spew...i respect the guy, may as well be polite. so he wants to sell me full tilt bumble bee's for 499, full retail (you can find them online for 250). i tell him straight up that all my skis are rockered, i only ski soft snow and hike more than i ride the lift, im sure my boots are fine.

 

i have NEVER been pressured by them before. for the most part they know that i have been skiing my whole life and i know my shit, if i need some help or advise ill ask. usually they respect that.

 

what ever happened with your skis, did they give you a new pair?

[backclipped]

First of all it is absolute bullshit that a shop mounted something other than your own bindings on your skis. This is a matter of accountability, and I would not have left that shop without my "own" bindings mounted on my "own" skis...WTF.

As for re-using the same holes: I'm riding a pair of Salomon X-Wing Labs mounted with the Marker Dukes. Now, this is more of an Alpine set-up than a light weight touring arrangement; which means it has a bit more "integrity". Because my ski has more burl than, say, a BD or a G3, I always remove my binding prior to stone grinding. I have never had a pull-out...ever. If you have a less substantial ski, or an unwavering concern, insist on having your holes heli-coiled. I know people who heli-coil there mounting points right off the bat. If done right (ummmm, I'd skip on Berge's) the heli-coil mount will be uber bomber.

[MarkMcJizzy]

 

dont ski them, take them back and demand new skis and bindings. if they dont hook you up post this story on tgr, ttips, tay newschoolers...it was bergs mistake they are dicking you around.

 

 

Do not do this. It is called extortion (blackmail). There is a legally prescribed method to deal with a problem of this sort. Be calm and professional with them. Go in and talk to the owner, and ask for new skiis and bindings. If you do not get that, sue them in small claims court.

Edited March 9, 2009 by MarkMcJizzy

[Kit]

Extortion? You have got to be kidding. We're talking about skis, not inheritances.

 

I'm pretty sure its not illegal to tell others when you've had bad service. No one is threatening anyone. Berg's screwed up, in this case. *Let it be known* Mountain Gear screwed up in my case. *Let it be known* These mistakes were inexcusable and these shops did almost nothing to correct or make up for them.

 

In fact, to give an update on the bad service I recieved from REI just now: Yesterday was day 31 since I bought skis. They hadn't given me a call since day 6 to let me know whether parts were in or what. So I finally went in so see what was up. The master tech was there, and all the parts were in. He told me he was going to mount them that afternoon. Whatever. I got a refund and I won't be going back there for ski shop work. I'll try my luck at Backcountry Essentials or try to learn how to do it myself.

 

Backclipped, what kind of adhesive do you use? I assume you remove your bindings several times over the life of the ski? It is good to hear someone with some experience removing bindings and remounting in the same holes. Also, I will look into the heli-coil method, thanks.

 

[RocNoggin]

when remounting using the same holes either heli-coils or filling the hole with epoxy first should work great!

 

if when you have your bindings mounted on your skis you have them mounted 1.5cm back where you wanted them in the first place then have your old holes filled with epoxy, instead of the plastic plugs usually used, and you shouldnt have any loss of integrity or strength.

 

another backcountry repair tip: if your binding screws pull out and your bindings are mounted on riser plates simply removing the riser plate and remounting the binding can allow the screws to bite into enough new material to allow you to ski out. depending on the lenght or your screws and the height of your risers the screws may go through your ski base. an easy fix that can be taken care of when you fix your binding holes.

[backclipped]

I just use wood glue. If your screws are tightened down with 4 newton meters of torque, there is no reason to use anything stronger...I "do" want to remove my bindings for future grinding. Wood glue is manly used for lubrication and to keep water out.

 

 

Shop trick for "close to old hole remounts": do not just fill old holes with epoxy. Squirt some expoxy (marine grade), take a golf tee, hammer it home (be kinda gentle, you can dimple your base, cut off the top, sure-form the debre flush, drill you new holes. Why only add epoxy when you can add some wood fiber...aka, meat.