tele skiing

[max]

let the incesant "my skiing is cooler than yours" begin.

[Figger_Eight]

quote:

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Originally posted by max:

let the incesant "my skiing is cooler than yours" begin.

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Okay...My skiing IS cooler than yours - you bunch of "I wish I could tele - but my skinny little sport climbing legs are too weak" wankers. I hear they're having a sale on one piece Bogner suits at Sturtavents in Bellevue, you might also get a discount on a cat ski trip. Don't forget your season's pass to Steven's - the lifts should open early this year for you Black Diamond heroes.

[AlpineK]

Since you ask DP I've done more backcountry skiing for more years than most people on this board. (look up my trip report on the Forbidden Tour last May) I've even telemarked for a couple years going on trips into the bc skiing powder. I've tried it and didn't like it.

I've skied with plenty of tele skiers that broke their cable or ripped out their binding. Think about it all the force of a turn is on a 3" to 5" section of your ski. On AT gear the force is much more spread out. I've never broken my bindings.

Lets talk tradition. I know a bunch of old timers that skied in the Cascades in the 40s to the 60s. They were all on a version of AT gear. Tele skiers only showed up in the 70's. So don't make me laugh by talking about history.

EddyE I am heartbroken you don't want to ski with me this winter. I haven't stopped crying since I read your post.

[Juneriver]

Thanks again for all the great advice.I think I'll give it a go with the skis I have now.

David Parker, the skis I'll be using are K2 TNC comp. The length is pretty long (I was riding 200's and I'm 5'10"), so they might be a little harder to gain control of. I was an advanced skier but haven't been on the boards for about 5 years or so. I'm sure I'll be beginner/intermediate but will hopefully have a short relearning curve.

I'm going to keep my eyes open for a set of AT or Tele bindings that will be compatible w/ plastics climbing boots. Hopefully I won't fall off anything that will kill me. Thanks again.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Juneriver ]

[Lambone]

All AT bindings (except Dynafit) should work with Plastics. No tele bindings will. Go with Silverreta 300's if you want a cheap approach set up. They are bomber, but don't release...be carefull!!

Oh yeah, BTW skiing in plastic boots with a pack on is a wonderfull experience, especialy in breakable crust!!

[bobinc]

As Alan Bard used to say, "the techniques and gear you use are up to you. It's all skiing."

As someone who's been almost 100% tele for most of my skiing days, I'm finally coming to realize that if I only ski 10 or 20 days per year, there's no way I'm going to get the conditioning I need to ski the steeper, harder stuff on teles. That's why I'm seriously considering trying AT this year.

Tele forces you to ski better or face (plant) the consequences. You have to be more active on your skis and pay attention all the time. If you have the time to ski more, then enjoy the tele. But don't discriminate against those who want to try something different.

[Matt]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

If the skis are wide enough, you don't need risers. Most alpine skis are fine with out risers except maybe really thin ones or the new shaped ones. I would stay away from risers until you become an expert tele skier.

I also think GS skis are better than slalom skis. They tend to have a more even flex and softer tip. Generally speaking, slalom skis dive in the powder. You don't need a racing ski.

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David,

So basically your saying my advice is bunk?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think GS skis are made to be the stiffest skis on the market. The increased rigidity helps GS racers make large arching turns and improves stability at faster speeds. Typically, a beginner never skis fast enough to get a GS ski to flex correctly and so at lower speeds must rely on more slide and less carve in the turn (i.e. poor technique). The increased rigidity also makes carving turns in powder more difficult.

A slalom ski is softer (compared to a GS ski) and has a smaller turning radius-- allowing for tight fast turns that are typical of slalom gates. The ski will flex at lower speeds making it more user friendly for beginners.

Truly it is all superfluous. It doesn't matter what kind of gear you have as long as you're having fun.

AlpineK, clearly you are older than dirt. Let's go skiing sometime.

[jon]

GS skis are definately stiff and made for wide turns, and are typically a lot longer. I've got some K2 GS races at 207 with racing bases and a Derby Flex and they are they are absolutely fucking scary to ride on, way too fast and you really have to work to turn the things, aren't any fun in the powder. They're a blast on anything groomed bu basically it's a "hasn't snowed in weeks watch me carve turns on ice better than you" ski. I would not recommend a ski like this to anyone except a few of my more insane friends.

I was skeptical about fat shaped skis when they came out but after owning my first pair I'm a believer, you truly ski better with them, especially in powder. Forget the GS/Slalom crap, go find a pair of cruising skis and have a blast. I have some Fischer Alltrax Expeditions with some risers on it and it an awesome ski. If they hadn't been killed by a rock I would have throw some of the new Fritches' on them for backcountry skis.

People put risers on tele skis?

[Lambone]

Matt,

You are right...

And risers help on any tele ski, but especialy fat ones. Not only cause of the boot drag issue, but they help you get the ski over on its edge.

My $.02

[David_Parker]

Matt, we should have this discussion over beer! Anyway, I may be guilty of thinking of older skis back when I used to race in the late 70's and 80's, but the slalom skis were by far stiffer than the GS skis and sucked in powder. For example Rossi Sm were the gs skis and the st's were the slalom. Likewise the K2 710 (712) were slalom and 810s (812)gs. Then K2 went to the vo slalom. I also had Dynastar omeglass II (slalom) and the gs skis with the bozo nose (GS) I used all these skis and also sold them and tuned them back in the 80's. The slalom skis were all stiffer because you were on hard and then off again and you needed the rebound snap to get what you needed out of the ski in a tight slalom course. A soft tip would not initiate a quick turn as well. In a gs ski, you definitely needed softer tips to absorb the bumps at higher speeds. Your turn is much longer in radius and you have to maintain the arc in the ski longer. They were not as stiff. (Don't confuse torsional rigidity with flex. All race skiis have very stiff torsional rigidity.) This is why we all used gs skis in the Utah powder. The tips flexed more, getting the ski to rise up in the pooder instead of dive like the slalom skis. Keep in mind, contrary to what many think, the key to skiing powder (and crud)is to put pressure on the middle of the ski and thus your tips so they flex. Leaning way back is not how to get your tips up and ski powder. Maybe all the technology is different now, obviously the case with shaped skis.

The important point is that race skis should only be used if you are going to put the demands on the ski for which it is designed. I saw way too many skiiers using race skis that didn't know how to carve a turn none the less a turkey. What a waste of ski (and money) in the name of looking cool. For telemarking, especially for a learner, there is no need to have an advanced (race) ski for skiing back country or even soft snow in the resort. For hard groomers, then that is a different story, but that can be your second pair of skis. Basically my point is that weight, length, and flex are what you should examine when choosing a ski for telemarking. Keep it light, a nice even (soft) flex and not too long or short.

I'm also a believer that your skis are second in importance to your boots. Whatever skis you buy, you'll get used to them. Spend your money on good boots that fit well. That is your real link to the snow.

So I only offer this stuff because I know older skis if you are considering using older skis for telemarking. Older = cheap and there are some great older skiis out there for telemarking! If you want the new stuff, I'm not the guy to consult! I don't use it.

[AlpineK]

If any of you want to ski on truely historic Cascade ski gear my father has 2 pairs of Head Standards (215 cm) with Marker toe pieces and alpine cable bindings. He also has some real skins.

[Norm]

quote:

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Originally posted by AlpineK:

If any of you want to ski on truely historic Cascade ski gear my father has 2 pairs of Head Standards (215 cm) with Marker toe pieces and alpine cable bindings. He also has some real skins.

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WoW! from real live clubbed baby seals?

[Guest]

Tele skier wear knee pads and their always bending down! Sick fuckers!

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Bonzo ]

[Geoffo]

The tele vs. Alpine/Randon-eh debate (with resulting bumperstickers) is as old as the hills (and as exciting as exciting as sport vs. trad hoo-rah)lets call a truce and say anybody that goes out of bounds on board, on ski, or pogo stick has the right idea...doesn't matter what your on it's that your out there!

[mikeadam]

Geoffo-Right on! Let's all just agree that there are many ways to experience the mountains on skis and boards and just enjoy it.

[max]

Mike and Geoff: I like what your saying! It makes me think of something I'd like to share.

Most of the awesome climbers I admire, either cause they have an great list of accomplishments or just because they have the right idea when it comes to what's important in climbing... they alwost always repsect other people and what they're doing in climbning. It seems like the best climbers are always excited to see the most bummbly newbie thrashing their way up a 5.5 and loving every minute of it. I think since they have such a good idea about why climbing is so great, they understand the joy of a new climber doing what would be to them easy climbs.

So yeah. Who frickin cares if you hike, snoeshoe, AT, tele, crawl..what ever? IT"S ALL FUN and seeing other people wooping it up always makes you smile!

[Beck]

Well, some people are convinced THEY'RE not having fun and they go about making everyone else as miserable as possible in order to justify their own crappy attitude- I've run into these kind of people and you all have too, I'd imagine...

I'm usually smiling even if I'm postholing uphill through a thin crust over waist deep rockies powder...no, I take that back. I'm smiling even if I'm snowshoeing with a friend who's never been in the mountains in winter, even if it means not cutting turns because yes, it is real cool to see other people getting out and having fun.

[Lambone]

Seeing snowboarders sideslip down a sweet line of powder does not make me smile...

But just about everything else does. I devoted all but one day out of last ski season too teaching my fiance how to tele. I HAD to enjoy the bunny slopes, or else....things got ugly!!

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: lambone ]

[David_Parker]

Other than some minor dissing by alpinek and a couple others, I didn't get the feel in this thread that anyone was claiming that one form of skiing was superior to another. The thread started with some newbies looking to find out more info about tele skiing in general, which lead to some posts about equipment; where and what to buy. I am used to dissing as a telemark skier and don't mind it. We all make our own choices. I tele and have my reasons. I don't think it is superior to other forms of gliding over snow. I do see that is has its advantages in certain situations, but not all situations. There have been times in the heaviest death crud I wished I was on a board (even though I don't even know how knuckle drag!) I have nothing against AT gear and wholly support someone to go that direction if they want to get into backcountry skiing and don't want to learn tele skiing. (It's ok if you don't free your heel to free your mind!) We all know tele is not easy to learn and if an alpine skiier wants to get into the BC and not flail, AT makes much more sense. But I don't think skiing in plastic climbing boots is that easy either! The whole thing is a big balancing act between gear you may already have, gear you need, price, and whatever style of skiing (riding) you know and may want to learn. There is no right or wrong answer! So newbies can read these posts and get the info and various opinions and make their own choices. My brother has a split decision and can choose between boarding or skiing or tele turns on the way down. My sister has a mono-tele-ski or tele-board or whatever the #$%^%@& you call it and I thought that was the most rediculous thing I'd seen in a while!! Probably not easy to hike on, but it was actually fun to try at the resort. I haven't seen it out west yet which leads me to believe those east coast skiiers are getting really bored (board?) without the terrain (and powder) we have out west. They have the choice of moving out west if they want, or trying a new and different way to glide over snow. Really, that's what it's all about!

Choose your weapon and go shred and have fun!!!

[David_Parker]

Lambone, We had a quote back when I was single. Even though I'm married now, I think it still applies!

"Just because I sleep with you, doesn't mean I ski with you!"

I have always been weary of teaching a girlfriend or spouse to ski. It usually causes bigger problems off the slopes. Buy her a few lessons from a pro and you'll both be happier!

[Lambone]

Naw, were tight like that. We've delt with much worse together, plus I might get me new boards for X-Mas out of the deal!

She had never skied before last year, and picked up the tele turn pretty well.

I think learning to tele is almost easier for someone who has never been on Alpine skis before. It's harder to teach an old dog new tricks (so to speak). Would you agree?

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: lambone ]

[philfort]

No, I would disagree. The people I know who alpine skied before tele'ing, picked it up much faster than those who didn't, and were able to ski tough terrain a lot sooner. There's a lot in common in both forms, in terms of balance, upper body stance, yadda yadda.....

[AlpineK]

One of my great loves is picking on tele skiers, but that's because I know where all their buttons are. I wouldn't confuse that with dislike of telemarkers. In fact I ski with a number on a regular basis.

My only real concern is the disregard for the history of AT skiing in the Cascades. While cavemen, and even perhaps Captn. Caveman, hunted sabertooth tigers on skis that are more or less nordic, the history of skiing in the Cascades is full of AT skiing. Telemarking only really gained a foothold in the time period when alpine cable binding were phased out and good AT bindings came out.

If you look at modern equipment there really isn't a big difference between tele and AT gear, and in the next couple years the gap is going to get a lot smaller.

If you are an alpine skier and you want to ski stuff in the backcountry I say stick with the gear you are used to while you are learning about avalanche prediction and all the funky types of wild snow out there. You can switch your turning style later. I would add that I don't think tele skiers are having anymore fun than I am ripping it up in the powder.

I'm thinking skiing is going to be pretty good this year!!!!!

[mikeadam]

For ALL person's interested. Martin's new Snoqualmie Backcountry Tours book will be out soon too!

AlpineK I believe that Lowell S. has been working on a history book regarding touring in the Cascades for about a year. Check out http://alpenglow.org for more information.

For a SWEET photo Check out Air Hattrup launching off Summit Chief Col during the Snoqualmie Haute Routes inagural trip!

http://alpinelite.com/martins_book.htm

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: mikeadam ]

[comradreja]

"Originally posted by AlpineK:"Hey man I'm embarrassed to admit I've telemarked a little, but it was back in college and it was just a phase. I never bought tele gear though. We all have our moral failings. I'm just trying to help people in their moment of crisis."

Man, I feel sorry for you big guy, you must went to some University in Idaho, where you go to bar, and they asked you about your fingerless gloves. Yeah, Tele Skiing is for loser who side step down faces, or have to wuss out and not ski down runs near the Nisqually glacier, and then climb down rock bands. Besides with AT gear, one can never bust an edge on a rock, and have to deal with a bunch of sissy pinheads. ATers unlike pinheads never whine about steeps, or people drinking their Scotch, while laughing at the whimpy Telemarkers trying to avoid death falls.

Comradreja

Oh, I think I saw you at the Camp Muir, Saturday around 1pm, You are that really old guy, right. I was told to stay away from you, because you ski really crazy stuff. I was the guy with the blue skis, green hat, red coat, squeaky bindings, as usual you were making fun of my climbing down another rock band, but thank god you didn't drink my scotch.