softshell battle!

[sklag]

Ok,

I got into a disagreement with a local outdoor store employee over softshell layering systems. What is the general consensus about how much insulation is needed under the softshell? I said it was less-like a r1 and capilene baselayer; he said pffff you need a heavyweight fleece-yo! And then it was on! Who was right?

Thanks

[Mark_Husbands]

I think the temperature might be relevant.

[Tokogirl]

Temperature and what kind of soft shell jacket. There are so many different fabrications of Schoeller: WB-400, which is a bonded fabric, Soft Shell 3XDRY, and on and on.

 

 

[dbconlin]

Temperature and what kind of soft shell jacket. There are so many different fabrications of Schoeller: WB-400, which is a bonded fabric, Soft Shell 3XDRY, and on and on.

 

 

Yeah, what she said.

 

Softshells range from very thin, very breathable to full wind protection with bonded fleece interior and some even claiming fully waterproof (not a softshell therefore?).

 

I tend to wear the thin/breathable variety. Under it anything from synthetic t-shirt to expedition weight undergarment...but never fleece.

[cman]

i have had a couple softshell jackets. I love the how breathable they are, but they don't hold the heat too well. i just layer based on the activity level and temps, and bring some kind of puffy for taking breaks.

 

when i am backcountry skiing i usually have to take the softshell off on the uphills because it is way to hot.

 

[plexus]

Temperature and what kind of soft shell jacket. There are so many different fabrications of Schoeller: WB-400, which is a bonded fabric, Soft Shell 3XDRY, and on and on.

 

 

I love it when you talk technical.

 

Seriously though, if you're talking about just plain resort skiing, my R2 Patagucci zip is plenty even when it drops into the single digits here in Colorado. The only time I could ever think about using a heavy fleece is overnight camping or belaying in some pretty frigid conditions.

 

But truth is I don't find my nice $400 softshell any warmer than my 10-year-old NF shell, it's just more streamline and less bulky.

 

 

[Dane]

Soft shells really aren't much different than a hard shell when it comes to layering. Out side temps and your work load dictate what is required to stay comfortable.

 

Biggest advantage I have seen in soft shells isn't warmth, but breathability (easier to stay warm and dry while working hard) and more flexability from the clothing while moving.

[hafilax]

Softshells don't break the wind as well so in windy conditions they will be colder. Otherwise I layer like I would for a hardshell.

[G-spotter]

Action suit principle.

 

Wear softshell over baselayer. Nothing else underneath.

 

If necessary, layer OVER softshell.

[jared_j]

What he said.

 

In addition, if you put on a fleece under a softshell with a such as the Arcteryx Gamma MX (which has a 'fleece'-y texture on the inside), there will be a lot of friction between the fleece and the softshell when you're moving.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2008 by jared_j

[robertjoy]

A softshell is much more breathable than goretex, yet is more wind-resistant than standard fleece. Depending on ambient temp, wind, and assuming high activity (climbing)I will wear my softshell over medium weight zip-T, or if still chilly, add a fleece vest to warm the core while letting the arms and pits breathe more.

If this isn't warm enough, such as when stopped for lunch, I wear my gore-tex shell over the whole setup.

[letsroll]

Softshell is a layer piece just like anything else. I have a mountain hardwear softshell, the thinest one. I used it this summer for climbing and I loved it. It was perfect when it got cool and windy. I only used my shell once with it, if I had pants instead of shorts I may not have needed the shell. However I have been using it for biking in the cold mornings and I am not as sold on it for winter. It does not breath enough. If I stop I get sweety(sp?) then I get cold. If don't stop it seems to be good for at least an hour of riding but I better get in and change otherwise I get cold. With that said I can't wait to try it out on a climb to see how it works. Maybe biking is too much for it and anything that will give me enough wind protection will get me too sweety(sp?). When I will use it for climbing it will be a layer. Thin long sleeve for making time, then the softshell when I slow down. When things get really windy and or cold the shell goes over that. Breaks will put on a puffy if I bring it. That combo or a close veriant to it serves me 90% of the time.

[billbob]

A couple weekends ago me 'n Ivan were heading up hood in light rain / windy conditions, temps in mid-30's. He had TWO softshell jackets, one was a MH hoody. He was wet after 15 min, soaked after 30 min, and near hypothermic after 45. I watched as he wrung out a couple pints of water and hung them both up to drip. An hour later it was painful just to watch when he had to put everything back on for the walk back to a warm dry car. Maybe the jackets needed to be treated with a waterproofing rinse product? Would it have really helped? Moral of the story - Always bring some sort of hard shell if it might rain.

[Vickster]

I use the Mammut champ pants with no base layer and clime jacket for my light softshell with an underarmor cold gear shirt. The soft shells are really great considering they are about 1lb each. Then I have a heavier marmot softshell jacket that comes in around 2lbs. I will throw it on over everything if I need to.

 

I figure that if I need anything heavier on the legs I would go long my eVent westcomb pants over my softshell ones.

 

[genepires]

Not much to do when it is blowing and raining. I doubt that any softshell, treated or not, could withstand that weather. I got soaked once in severe conditions like that and I was wearing goretex head to toe. Hard wind will find any weakness in outerwear and bring the water inside.