Chickenhawks

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

I shop a lot. That's a service to our country, because I pour money into the economy.And I pay taxes. That's a service. My last impulse purchases at Pottery Barn and Fireworks might have paid for some more bullets and grenades for use in Iraq. That's a service. Where's my free health care, dammit?

 

weak.

 

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

Well actually, I guess there's an alternative. We could make lifetime military service mandatory for all men and women.Then we'd all have healthcare.

 

Problem solved!

 

Good idea. Start with Kboner.

 

No I'm thinking you, buddy boy. You haven't really done shit for this country, have you?

 

fuck you asshole

 

What, you forgot to tack that on in the first response? Or did your blood boil over the more you thought about it? Man, you non-atheists sure are an angry lot! Stay away from me.

 

[mattp]

It is not obtuse. So now you are saying that government run services are not socialism, but only when it involves "transfer payments?"

 

And what is this "transfer payment" theory? Anytime my taxes pay for something somebody else is going to benefit from -- is that a "transfer payment?" The government provides roads, utilities, defense, weather forecasting, and even hiking trails. Why are these legitimate government services, but administering or regulating a health insurance operation is not?

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

It is not obtuse. So now you are saying that government run services are not socialism, but only when it involves "transfer payments?"

 

And what is this "transfer payment" theory? Anytime my taxes pay for something somebody else is going to benefit from -- is that a "transfer payment?" The government provides roads, utilities, defense, weather forecasting, and even hiking trails. Why are these legitimate government services, but administering or regulating a health insurance operation is not?

 

 

 

If you can't see the difference between service in military and its concomitant benefits and simply existing, then you're in the same intellectual bin as kboner.

 

[StevenSeagal]

It is not obtuse. So now you are saying that government run services are not socialism, but only when it involves "transfer payments?"

 

And what is this "transfer payment" theory? Anytime my taxes pay for something somebody else is going to benefit from -- is that a "transfer payment?" The government provides roads, utilities, defense, weather forecasting, and even hiking trails. Why are these legitimate government services, but administering or regulating a health insurance operation is not?

 

 

 

If you can't see the difference between service in military and its concomitant benefits and simply existing, then you're in the same intellectual bin as kboner.

 

 

So why don't we abolish the government altogether and just have the military rule us? Apparently that's the one authority (that doesn't require faith, that is) to which you turn and bow to each day.

[Fairweather]

I like the way you are more willing to hijack another thread than you are to address privacy problems inherent in your health care ideas when asked in the appropriate thread. So what do you really think about the gloved-hand of a government doctor shoved up your rectum? Would that be less invasive than, say, listening in on Hajib's phone call to Vancouver B.C.?

[mattp]

I understand the idea of military benefits.

 

However, you are saying that it is a transfer payment if I pay taxes and some of those taxes happen to go toward medical services for somebody else. Ignore the obvious fact that this is happening right now because we provide government-funded services through programs for the indigent and through federally reimbursed services at emergency rooms. But tell me: is it a "transfer payment" if I buy health insurance and don't go see the doctor but my neighbor who has the same insurance company does?

 

I realize you dislike the idea of wellfare, and you think that veterans earned every benefit they get, but is that really true? I have a climbing acquaintance who as far as I know had no substantial skills, served in peace time, made decent money, and left the service with a trade in which he now earns more money than he ever dreamed of. Did he "earn" VA services for the rest of his life?

[olyclimber]

Well if we could make it a requirement for all military personnel to be of the correct faith and proper fervor (whipped up and giddy), i think that would be an excellent idea.

 

then finally people would start having some respect for our leader! the iron fist rules with an iron fist.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I understand the idea of military benefits.

 

However, you are saying that it is a transfer payment if I pay taxes and some of those taxes happen to go toward medical services for somebody else. Ignore the obvious fact that this is happening right now because we provide government-funded services through programs for the indigent and through federally reimbursed services at emergency rooms. But tell me: is it a "transfer payment" if I buy health insurance and don't go see the doctor but my neighbor who has the same insurance company does?

 

I realize you dislike the idea of wellfare, and you think that veterans earned every benefit they get, but is that really true? I have a climbing acquaintance who as far as I know had no substantial skills, served in peace time, made decent money, and left the service with a trade in which he now earns more money than he ever dreamed of. Did he "earn" VA services for the rest of his life?

 

Are you trying to convince me that VA benefits should be cut or restricted, or dependent on combat service or years of duty? Try hard enough, and maybe I could agree with you on that.

[mattp]

I like the way you are more willing to hijack another thread than you are to address privacy problems inherent in your health care ideas when asked in the appropriate thread. So what do you really think about the gloved-hand of a government doctor shoved up your rectum? Would that be less invasive than, say, listening in on Hajib's phone call to Vancouver B.C.?

 

You tell mle what your "pivacy problems inherent in my healthcare ideas" are, and I'll gladly discuss them here or in the other thread. For the fourth time: you gotta say what your issue is. I'm not a mind reader.

[mattp]

Are you trying to convince me that VA benefits should be cut or restricted, or dependent on combat service or years of duty? Try hard enough, and maybe I could agree with you on that.

 

Nope. I'm questioning your term "transfer payment."

[Fairweather]

You don't think a government health history database would be established that could (would) be used to deny employment, government-backed lending, genetic predisposition, etc? Sure, private insurance companies have access to this information right now, but the government acts as a (somewhat lethargic) watchdog. Do you really think they would be inclined to keep themselves above board?

[olyclimber]

we're all fishes

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Are you trying to convince me that VA benefits should be cut or restricted, or dependent on combat service or years of duty? Try hard enough, and maybe I could agree with you on that.

 

Nope. I'm questioning your term "transfer payment."

 

Nope, you're playing lawyer's games. As usual. This is why FW gets tired of engaging w/ you in a discussion, as do I.

 

[StevenSeagal]

I want all three of you to answer each other's questions WITHOUT the precondition that the other answer your questions first.

 

Do it NOW.

[mattp]

Ah. You finally spit it out.

 

You ask a complicated question here. Would the government establish a health history database? Yes, just as the insurance companies now do. Would they use it to deny employment? Maybe. would they use it in government-backed lending programs? This seems a little more of a stretch but I suppose they could. Genetic predisposition? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

The root of your question seems to be that you believe the government will not protect our privacy and will mis-use any information it gets. As to privacy, I'm not at all convinced that the government isn't better about protecting our privacy than phone companies, credit card companies, and private insurance companies right now and I personally would be a lot less worried about my health history if we had universal healthcare and I could not be denied coverage for existing conditions or if I suffered a financial disaster. As to abuse of the information, I can only say much the same thing: I trust the government with my information more than I trust business interests. Much more.

 

You and I are never going to agree about this. I actually think the government does a good job of providing services. I think the US Postal Service is great. I think the Interstate highway system is pretty cool, I doubt private business could have won WW II for us, and you know what? I'd like to see MORE government control and less private enterprise in a variety of areas. But back to the topic at hand: I don't think health insurance companies would have wiped out polio, I don't trust them to take care of me. I think our present healthcare system is a disgrace.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

and you know what? I'd like to see MORE government control and less private enterprise in a variety of areas.

 

No shit! I would have never guessed!!!

 

[olyclimber]

I want all three of you to answer each other's questions WITHOUT the precondition that the other answer your questions first.

 

Do it NOW.

 

I'm not doing that till you answer the question I never asked you but thought of cleverly, but lacked the energy to type up. I want you to also answer why I, as a man of incredible intellect, stamina, and other awesome stuff, am without fail the last bastion of truth on CC.com. Unwaiveringly.

[mattp]

Nope, you're playing lawyer's games.

 

Dude: It is not lawyer's games. When you make a statement like "VA benefits are payment for services rendered, but securing services for anybody else is a transfer payment," it is meaningless if you can't explain what you mean or back it up.

[StevenSeagal]

I want all three of you to answer each other's questions WITHOUT the precondition that the other answer your questions first.

 

Do it NOW.

 

I'm not doing that till you answer the question I never asked you but thought of cleverly, but lacked the energy to type up. I want you to also answer why I, as a man of incredible intellect, stamina, and other awesome stuff, am without fail the last bastion of truth on CC.com. Unwaiveringly.

 

I just answered your questions telepathically. Did you get it? Wait, I already know you did.

[StevenSeagal]

Nope, you're playing lawyer's games.

 

Dude: It is not lawyer's games. When you make a statement like "VA benefits are payment for services rendered, but securing services for anybody else is a transfer payment," it is meaningless if you can't explain what you mean or back it up.

 

It takes faith to understand this.

[Fairweather]

I don't think health insurance companies would have wiped out polio, I don't trust them to take care of me. I think our present healthcare system is a disgrace.

 

You don't think that private pharmaceutical companies have built well on existing research--yes, much of it government funded--with new and better treatments and medications? What I'm saying is not necessarily business/good, government/bad, but rather there are ways to retool the partnership that already exists between the two. You may trust all of your eggs will do well with government, but I don't. And it's not necessarily about trust either. I believe government has the ability to do more damage to the individual than a corporation does--and will if given free reign.

[olyclimber]

Marco!

[mattp]

I don't think health insurance companies would have wiped out polio, I don't trust them to take care of me. I think our present healthcare system is a disgrace.

What I'm saying is not necessarily business/good, government/bad, but rather there are ways to retool the partnership that already exists between the two.

 

That is what anybody who is involved in any discussion of possible national litigation is talking about too.

[Fairweather]

I don't think health insurance companies would have wiped out polio, I don't trust them to take care of me. I think our present healthcare system is a disgrace.

What I'm saying is not necessarily business/good, government/bad, but rather there are ways to retool the partnership that already exists between the two.

 

That is what anybody who is involved in any discussion of possible national litigation is talking about too.

 

Did you mean legislation? Was that a Freudian slip, or what? But seriously, the proposal worked on by Hillary in 1993 set your reforms back decades because it did, in fact, attempt to 'socialize' the medical economy and draft virtually all of its employees.