billcoe Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The thing thats pissing me off about both of these contenders is that they are not moving much past the sound bite stage and concentrating on what our country needs, but on what they think they need to say to be elected. McCain's "Give the working man a gas tax vacation" is utter counterproductive bullshit slight of hand, Obama looked like he'd resist the bullshit, now he's advising to pull from the Oil Reserves. That shit isn't there to be a pawn in a political game so some jackass can get elected, its called the STRATEGIC reserves, and like money in the bank, we need to save that shit for when it's really needed. These men need to formulate a large stratigic plan for the good of our country and I'll vote for the first one who even starts to go there. Suggested topics that should be on the top of everyones issue list to include: A) The economy including our import/export balance of trade and the budget deficit. b) A national energy policy that looks out a firm 20 years and beyond. C) The economy. If we have a strong economy, lots of other issues can be dealt with like schools, serious environmental issues, prison funding, etc etc. I just don't see any of these guys thinking of anything except themselves first, and the country last. It saddens the F* out of me. To those of you rooting for Obama, think back to when Bush was running. He had successfully run Texas as Governor for some time and had a reputation of hiring and listening to qualified advisers: and look where it got us. Obama doesn't have 1/10th the track record Bush had then. Think about that for a moment and get scared. Really scared. (I'm assuming that the McCain supporters already are scared when they think of his anger issues) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I don’t know Bill…….McSame is about as corporate as you can get. Minus Bush...... How can lots of experience help you if the experience you bring to the table is tarnished by years of pandering and flip flopping and corporate bullshit? McSame is nothing but an old man trying one last time to make it big….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The choice is obvious. unfortunately you only have two choices. Obama seems like a statesman more than a politician which is a good thing in these times. But he has to deal with what US politics have become, which is a sideshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'd like to give 'em both a laurel and hardy handshake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 No comment right? Laba diena mergyta, kaip sekasi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 The choice is obvious. unfortunately you only have two choices. Obama seems like a statesman more than a politician which is a good thing in these times. But he has to deal with what US politics have become, which is a sideshow. So, when McCain does it, he is part of the problem. When Obama does it; it is out of necessity? C'mon now. I am sure you can see the double standard there. Lets at least keep this fair. I can't stand either of these pandering syncophants, but lets call out people when they fuck up. Obama has backtracked on quite a few 'hardline principles' recently and all I have heard were excuses. I thought you were all smarter than this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Yes but you are still stuck with the decision and while I used to think McCain was OK way back, when he looked like more of a voice of reason. I realized that in the midst of that group of crazies anyone could look good. Obama just seems smart enough to make some good decisions. Nobody is going to be able to steer your ship straight for a lot of years after what has happened in the last eight but at least with Obama it won't be the ferryman across the Styx. Must be the latte talking..usually I am more of an asshole in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 ...but why make excuses when for only one man when the other commits the same transgression. This is the height of puppetry. At least I can look critically at conservatives and critically evaluate them. Why do you think I am so frustrated right now? We have not a decent candidate; but at least I can admit that... You call out McCain for the very things that you exalt Obama for. I am just trying to point that out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I don’t know Bill…….McSame is about as corporate as you can get. Minus Bush...... How can lots of experience help you if the experience you bring to the table is tarnished by years of pandering and flip flopping and corporate bullshit? McSame is nothing but an old man trying one last time to make it big….. Obama has raised substantially more money than his opponent. Do you believe he is picking that off of trees or that it magically appears? Do you believe corporations are not giving big scratch to him? Do you believe this? Don't think it is not so. A man who will change his values to get elected will change to get the money to get re-elected or to get elected the first time. Now thats change you can believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 At the end of the day, picking the most honest person or who has the most solid internal values may be the best course of action. That may be just a guess. Certainly they are fairly close in many issues. Gun control/second amendment is an issue that Obama has moved over to the middle in a big way, and it's one of my core issues. Can this be trusted or will he move back once elected? Who can say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 From a foreign point of view I think that for the US to dig it's way out of where it is at it needs to regain credibility with the rest of the world. It seems that Obama may do that. McCain is a member of the party that got you into this schmozzle, and does not seem to be much different than Bush. It seems like there is only one issue here and that is the war and how you got there. The rest are non issues, just complicating, and muddying the waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 We are not at war. We are occupying another country. Yet another Rubuplican trick to....as you put it....muddy the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Obama has raised substantially more money than his opponent. Do you believe he is picking that off of trees or that it magically appears? Do you believe corporations are not giving big scratch to him? Do you believe this? Don't think it is not so. A man who will change his values to get elected will change to get the money to get re-elected or to get elected the first time. Now thats change you can believe in. I think he is leading in money because a shitload of small donors are giving money. I've seen stats that 25% of his donors had never given to a political campaign before. From Politico (a neutral site): "Ninety percent of his (Obama's) donors give $100 or less, and 41 percent have given $25 or less, according to the Obama campaign. Overall, he has raised 45 percent of his money in small contributions. Hillary Rodham Clinton's figure is 30 percent, Republican John McCain's is 23 percent." McCain has roughly double the amount of "mega donors" at 1011 to 470, his avg donation is roughly twice that of Obama $147 to $68. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The thing thats pissing me off about both of these contenders is that they are not moving much past the sound bite stage and concentrating on what our country needs, but on what they think they need to say to be elected. When was the last election that *wasn't* just sound bites. Welcome to the age of television. MTV has whittled our collective attention spans to where thats the only way politicians can reach us (by "us" i mean the masses, not the learned CC.com sprayers ;-) We'll get legitimate political discourse as soon as we demand it. A good read on the subject: Neil Postman, "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Political Discourse in the Age of Entertainment". Its an easy read given the subject matter. Along the same lines I just finished Chomsky, "Understanding Power". Interesting book that reframes world events from 1960-ish through 1990s (published just after the WTC bombing), easy read (broken into short sections/topics) but I am still digesting all the info. Anybody here read it? Maybe I'll start my own thread on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 At the end of the day, picking the most honest person or who has the most solid internal values may be the best course of action. That may be just a guess. Certainly they are fairly close in many issues. Gun control/second amendment is an issue that Obama has moved over to the middle in a big way, and it's one of my core issues. Can this be trusted or will he move back once elected? Who can say. and having an affair and ditching your wife, who stood by you while in captivity and going through rehab doesn't show the character- right? now this is an ultimate flip- flop in my opinion. somehow all of you gun loving, family-values right wing butt-nutts have very selective memory, when it comes to these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 At the end of the day, picking the most honest person or who has the most solid internal values may be the best course of action. That may be just a guess. Certainly they are fairly close in many issues. Gun control/second amendment is an issue that Obama has moved over to the middle in a big way, and it's one of my core issues. Can this be trusted or will he move back once elected? Who can say. and having an affair and ditching your wife, who stood by you while in captivity and going through rehab doesn't show the character- right? now this is an ultimate flip- flop in my opinion. somehow all of you gun loving, family-values right wing butt-nutts have very selective memory, when it comes to these issues. Save that little gem for when we find out about one of Obama's flings... say in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 McCain spent 5 years being tortured. That should disqualify him "mentally" from being president right off the bat…… And why is he for torture today if he got tortured? What an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 there is no need for saving this gem for later. i am sure republifucks would have already used it long, long time ago. you are simply left without an argument, so stfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 McCain spent 5 years being tortured. That should disqualify him "mentally" from being president right off the bat…… And why is he for torture today if he got tortured? What an idiot. once again you prove yourself to be a worthless moron. FOAD, boner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 there is no need for saving this gem for later. i am sure republifucks would have already used it long, long time ago. you are simply left without an argument, so stfu One thing I'll give him - at least Obama doesn't massage dudes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 there is no need for saving this gem for later. i am sure republifucks would have already used it long, long time ago. you are simply left without an argument, so stfu One thing I'll give him - at least Obama doesn't massage dudes but you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 there is no need for saving this gem for later. i am sure republifucks would have already used it long, long time ago. you are simply left without an argument, so stfu I just received the following in an email from a friend who is a rabid Republican. If it were true, I would have thought it would have surfaced by now. " Barack Obama is not a legal U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between December 24, 1952, to November 13, 1986. Federal Law requires that the office of President requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents. This is what exempts John McCain, though he was born in the US Panama Canal Zone . US Law very clearly states: ". . . If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16." Barack Obama's father was not a U.S. Citizen is a fact. Obama's mother was only 18 when Obama was born. This means even though she had been a U.S. Citizen for 10 years, (or citizen of Hawaii being a territory), his mother fails the test for at-least-5-years- prior-to Barack Obama's birth, but-after-age-16. In essence, Mother alone is not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, 2 years elapsed from his mother turning 16 to the time of Barack Obama's birth when she was 18. His mother would have needed to have been 16 + 5 = 21 years old at the time of Barack Obama's birth for him to be a natural-born citizen. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at the time his mother would have needed to be to allow him natural citizenship from his only U.S. Citizen parent. Obama should have been naturalized as a citizen . . . but that would disqualify him from holding the office. The Constitution clearly declares: Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, any other information does not matter because his mother is the one who must fulfill the requirement to be a U.S. Citzen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16. Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the USA for some time frame to protect any citizenship he might have had, rather than living in Indonesia . This is very clear cut and a glaring violation of U.S. Election law. I think the Governor Schwarzenegger of California should be very interested in discovering if Obama is allowed to be elected President without being a natural-born U.S. Citizen, since this would set a precedent. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several days." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, SEC. 305. [8 U.S.C. 1405], "A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth." Status of parents does not matter. Witness the "anchor baby" phenomenon where illegal immigrants have a kid here and it has citizenship simply from being born on US soil. The BS cited in the chain-mail applied only to those born outside the US or US territories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canyondweller Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 don't forget the tune up The only thing JoshK tunes is the meatwhistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canyondweller Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 McCain spent 5 years being tortured. That should disqualify him "mentally" from being president right off the bat…… And why is he for torture today if he got tortured? What an idiot. Lack of respect for military heroes is something I'll never understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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