Wherever you were, go back there next weekend

[Bug]

My parents had a beautiful half wolf.

We always kept it on a leash but it was a really mellow female.

One night around 2:30AM I was walking her in the park. There was no one around so I let her off the leash. We ran about a mile when we came to a clearing. Just as we entered it, a woman entered from the other side. My dog trotted up to her just to check her out. She totally freaked out, fell on her back and put her legs up to keep my dog away from her. She was terrified. I grabbed Sheila as fast as I could but the woman was already in tears. Sheila was not aggressive nor did she growl or bear her teeth. But this woman had no way to know that Sheila was a gentle dog.

I suggest you rember that with your pit bulls Muffy. They are bred to be aggressive. Most of them will respond to good training but some simply do not. Any stranger would be stupid to trust them.

 

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward.

 

The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around.

 

(I am really excited to get a dog )

 

So if you want a dog to play nice with the kids, get a lab. The question is what do you get with "pit" that you wouldn't get with less aggressive breed.....why risk it? Given the litigious nature of our society, are you really going to trust your family's financial future to a dog's ability to rightly judge "when someone in their family was in any kind of danger".

 

The breed is not agressive they are protective. I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog. they require training and like any other breed if they are too inbred they are more likely to no function well in society. as far as the protective nature of some breeds Mastiffs Boxers Pitbulls Rots and others, they were specificly bred to go to war (mastifs and rots) Bull mastiffs were bred to attack people who were tresspassing. It is in their breeding to know when someone is not suposed to be on the property. I am fully aware of how you and other uneducated people view bully breed dogs and frankly i am totaly uninterested. The only dogs i have ever seen attack inappropriately were not bully breed. one was indeed a black lab that nearly tore the face of it's owners child. so there.

Sorry Muff. I like your posts n all but I think your bias is off base.

In all the news stories I have read about dog attacking people and other dogs it was never a lab or a collie. It was always a pit bull or mastiff. I know that does not constitute a scientific study but it sure sways a jury.

[sk]

in the news right now that is all you will see. There is a massive campainge to have all bully breeds irraticated. There are trying to pass legislation in California that even if your dog has never shown a bit of agression that all bullys must be put down "just in case" it is bull shit. it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[Off_White]

Well, I suppose I'm off topic now that we're all about dogs, but back on page 1 where Raindawg chastised our original poster for asking for crowds, I'd like to point out that wet side crags like Index benefit from higher traffic, and if things aren't climbed regularly, they disappear back into the slime. That place needs more people on more routes if you ask me. Tried any of those face routes on the right side of Private Idaho lately? Bolts look kind of funny in moss carpets.

[sk]

Well, I suppose I'm off topic now that we're all about dogs, but back on page 1 where Raindawg chastised our original poster for asking for crowds, I'd like to point out that wet side crags like Index benefit from higher traffic, and if things aren't climbed regularly, they disappear back into the slime. That place needs more people on more routes if you ask me. Tried any of those face routes on the right side of Private Idaho lately? Bolts look kind of funny in moss carpets.

 

I thought we would have all firgured out how to friction off moss by now

 

sorry to derail the thred :kisss:

[tanstaafl]

I looked at those routes a few weeks ago. Then I went away and flailed up Rattletale instead.

[builder206]

I'd like to point out that wet side crags like Index benefit from higher traffic, and if things aren't climbed regularly, they disappear back into the slime.

 

One of the routes we did was a short 7. I think my buddy said it was Defoliator. It was obvious that it doesn't get much traffic and I was worried it had some sort of defect but it's just short. Anyway the ground looked like maybe someone had already been there this year but the route was dirty and I passed on a couple pro placements because vegetation was in the way. Also there were lots of ants and spiders. So yeah, it was being resorbed back into the primeval.

[Bug]

in the news right now that is all you will see. There is a massive campainge to have all bully breeds irraticated. There are trying to pass legislation in California that even if your dog has never shown a bit of agression that all bullys must be put down "just in case" it is bull shit. it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Or insert dogs, cannons, hand grenades, atom bombs.

If I see someone walking my way with one of those things in their hand, it makes me nervous. Throw all the "yeah butts" out there you want. If you have a bully breed, why not get a non-bully breed and buy a gun? Strap it to you side. You ca get permits you know? That way if someone gets hurt by something you own, you have complete control.

Ignorance is a horrible thing. So are out of control dogs that can latch onto a throat and never let go until they are dead.

[Bug]

Index is mossy every spring. By the end of summer it will be crowded and clean again.

[RuMR]

Well...I'm hoping we can all put this to bed. I've read enough. I've apologized and stated what I've learned and how I hope to limit these problems in the future. I haven't heard back from Alpinfox but I do hope that he and his crew accepts my apology. I guess if you choose to call me names or perhaps tell me that my dog has no business being at a crag leashed or not leashed then that's your choice and reaction to the situation. I am responsible for both my dog's and my actions and I know that. I know that I've crossed paths with many of you over the weekends and years. I try to get out every weekend if possible and many times my dog has been by my side. I've taken him craggin in Indian Creek, Squamish, Leavenworth, Tieton, Vantage and more. We've always had good relations and times with people until now (leashed and unleashed). Will I still take him? The answer is yes. Please do not throw rocks at him but feel free to call me all the names you like (to my face Rudy and not via internet). I'm out.

I woulda asked in person, and probably not too nicely, that you control your dog if i thought my family was being threatened by a dog.

 

I agree that its not cool to drop a name via internet but you initially got in Pax's face first "I woulda smashed your head in with a rock" over something where he was flat out in the right...I apologize for the namecalling, but it still was a "tool" thing to do to both the dog and others...Its obvious that you recognize this, hence your apology...

Edited June 3, 2008 by RuMR

[sk]

in the news right now that is all you will see. There is a massive campainge to have all bully breeds irraticated. There are trying to pass legislation in California that even if your dog has never shown a bit of agression that all bullys must be put down "just in case" it is bull shit. it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Or insert dogs, cannons, hand grenades, atom bombs.

If I see someone walking my way with one of those things in their hand, it makes me nervous. Throw all the "yeah butts" out there you want. If you have a bully breed, why not get a non-bully breed and buy a gun? Strap it to you side. You ca get permits you know? That way if someone gets hurt by something you own, you have complete control.

Ignorance is a horrible thing. So are out of control dogs that can latch onto a throat and never let go until they are dead.

 

you are correct they can latch on and lock thier jaw. however they are no more dangerous than any other breed of dog.

 

how do you know i don't have a concealed weapons permit? maybe i do

 

the problem with depending on a gun for protection is that it is more likely that they person atacking me will beable to wrest the gun from my grip and then kill me with my own weapon. DOgs are not weapons. they are creatures who deserve our love and understanding care respect attention etc etc. YOu my dear Bug are breedist. thats the same as being racist if you ask me.( i like dogs way more than i like people)

[ashw_justin]

Regardless of breed, a dog that finds itself in an abnormal (read: stressful) situation is going to fall back on its instincts, which for pretty much any dog includes territoriality, protectiveness, mistrust, attempts to dominate, etc. Particularly when separated from anyone familiar.

 

Someone familiar to the dog should be with the dog, hanging out with it, taking it for a walk, or whatever while waiting for their turn to climb. For some dogs, and it sounds like for the one in question, belayers don't count.

 

it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

Care to explain the difference between 'breed' and 'breeding'? Both positive and negative temperamental traits are ABSOLUTELY heritable.

 

Proper nurturing goes a long way though. Most dogs with a genetic predisposition to aggressiveness are quite loving and friendly, even to strangers, due to proper upbringing.

 

 

[sk]

Regardless of breed, a dog that finds itself in an abnormal (read: stressful) situation is going to fall back on its instincts, which for pretty much any dog includes territoriality, protectiveness, mistrust, attempts to dominate, etc. Particularly when separated from anyone familiar.

 

Someone familiar to the dog should be with the dog, hanging out with it, taking it for a walk, or whatever while waiting for their turn to climb. For some dogs, and it sounds like for the one in question, belayers don't count.

 

it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

Care to explain the difference between 'breed' and 'breeding'? Both positive and negative temperamental traits are ABSOLUTELY heritable.

 

Proper nurturing goes a long way though. Most dogs with a genetic predisposition to aggressiveness are quite loving and friendly, even to strangers, due to proper upbringing.

 

 

Breeding = direct haritage.... the traits of the dogs unique liniage, parents grandparents etc.

 

Breed = a type of dog that covers all dogs of that type

[Bug]

A neighbor of my ex-wife's had a Brittney Spaniel that "loved kids".

One day (about 15 years ago) it ripped the cheek off a 3 year old who had played with it in the past. The cheek was a loose flap that had to be re-attached. There have been successive surgeries over the years.

"But my dog would never bite". Is ignorrance. A loose dog around my little girls was always the subject of my attention.

I would not hesitate to kill a dog by whatever means available that was biting my daughters.

[sk]

A neighbor of my ex-wife's had a Brittney Spaniel that "loved kids".

One day (about 15 years ago) it ripped the cheek off a 3 year old who had played with it in the past. The cheek was a loose flap that had to be re-attached. There have been successive surgeries over the years.

"But my dog would never bite". Is ignorrance. A loose dog around my little girls was always the subject of my attention.

I would not hesitate to kill a dog by whatever means available that was biting my daughters.

 

I totally agree with that statement. i now have to google a britney spanial... I am not familiare with the breed

[sk]

That is a beautiful Hunting/Gun dog.

[ericb]

My parents had a beautiful half wolf.

We always kept it on a leash but it was a really mellow female.

One night around 2:30AM I was walking her in the park. There was no one around so I let her off the leash. We ran about a mile when we came to a clearing. Just as we entered it, a woman entered from the other side. My dog trotted up to her just to check her out. She totally freaked out, fell on her back and put her legs up to keep my dog away from her. She was terrified. I grabbed Sheila as fast as I could but the woman was already in tears. Sheila was not aggressive nor did she growl or bear her teeth. But this woman had no way to know that Sheila was a gentle dog.

I suggest you rember that with your pit bulls Muffy. They are bred to be aggressive. Most of them will respond to good training but some simply do not. Any stranger would be stupid to trust them.

 

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward.

 

The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around.

 

(I am really excited to get a dog )

 

So if you want a dog to play nice with the kids, get a lab. The question is what do you get with "pit" that you wouldn't get with less aggressive breed.....why risk it? Given the litigious nature of our society, are you really going to trust your family's financial future to a dog's ability to rightly judge "when someone in their family was in any kind of danger".

 

The breed is not agressive they are protective. I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog. they require training and like any other breed if they are too inbred they are more likely to no function well in society. as far as the protective nature of some breeds Mastiffs Boxers Pitbulls Rots and others, they were specificly bred to go to war (mastifs and rots) Bull mastiffs were bred to attack people who were tresspassing. It is in their breeding to know when someone is not suposed to be on the property. I am fully aware of how you and other uneducated people view bully breed dogs and frankly i am totaly uninterested. The only dogs i have ever seen attack inappropriately were not bully breed. one was indeed a black lab that nearly tore the face of it's owners child. so there.

 

Muff...I'm hardly uneducated, but we can compare pedigrees via PM if you'd like. Agression is due to both nature and nurture....so my point was why would you want a dog that you had to train to not be a lethal weapon given all the other options out there. I've not yet heard a person list a strength of the "bully breeds" that isn't present in spades in other less aggressive breeds. Can you list some positive traits of pit bulls and will see if they are somehow unique?

 

Once will biking down the Burke Gilman (at the park near bothel), I came upon quite a spectacle. Two pitbulls, apparently from the same litter, on a forked leash, in a death match, tethered together by the same leash that the frantic screaming sobbing owner was walking them with not 2 minutes earlier. Apparently something triggered a disaggreement, and they both "snapped". She tried in vain for 3 minutes to separate them while their blood was running all over the paved trail. Finally, after 5 minutes, someone heeded my advice (I might have stepped in myself but I was in bike cleats and not particularly nimble) and dragged the duo by the leash into the lake until they could no longer touch bottom and they had to separate or drown. Actually one slipped it's collar and swam to shore, and once secured, the other was carried in. I think they both lived, but it was pretty traumatic to them and everyone within a 300 yard radius.

 

Every since, I've been pretty down on pitbulls. Of course, not all breeds have the wow value of a pit bull, but if you need a dog to look cool, you've got problems.

[Bug]

A neighbor of my ex-wife's had a Brittney Spaniel that "loved kids".

One day (about 15 years ago) it ripped the cheek off a 3 year old who had played with it in the past. The cheek was a loose flap that had to be re-attached. There have been successive surgeries over the years.

"But my dog would never bite". Is ignorrance. A loose dog around my little girls was always the subject of my attention.

I would not hesitate to kill a dog by whatever means available that was biting my daughters.

 

I totally agree with that statement. i now have to google a britney spanial... I am not familiare with the breed

Luv ya Muff

[sk]

My parents had a beautiful half wolf.

We always kept it on a leash but it was a really mellow female.

One night around 2:30AM I was walking her in the park. There was no one around so I let her off the leash. We ran about a mile when we came to a clearing. Just as we entered it, a woman entered from the other side. My dog trotted up to her just to check her out. She totally freaked out, fell on her back and put her legs up to keep my dog away from her. She was terrified. I grabbed Sheila as fast as I could but the woman was already in tears. Sheila was not aggressive nor did she growl or bear her teeth. But this woman had no way to know that Sheila was a gentle dog.

I suggest you rember that with your pit bulls Muffy. They are bred to be aggressive. Most of them will respond to good training but some simply do not. Any stranger would be stupid to trust them.

 

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward.

 

The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around.

 

(I am really excited to get a dog )

 

So if you want a dog to play nice with the kids, get a lab. The question is what do you get with "pit" that you wouldn't get with less aggressive breed.....why risk it? Given the litigious nature of our society, are you really going to trust your family's financial future to a dog's ability to rightly judge "when someone in their family was in any kind of danger".

 

The breed is not agressive they are protective. I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog. they require training and like any other breed if they are too inbred they are more likely to no function well in society. as far as the protective nature of some breeds Mastiffs Boxers Pitbulls Rots and others, they were specificly bred to go to war (mastifs and rots) Bull mastiffs were bred to attack people who were tresspassing. It is in their breeding to know when someone is not suposed to be on the property. I am fully aware of how you and other uneducated people view bully breed dogs and frankly i am totaly uninterested. The only dogs i have ever seen attack inappropriately were not bully breed. one was indeed a black lab that nearly tore the face of it's owners child. so there.

 

Muff...I'm hardly uneducated, but we can compare pedigrees via PM if you'd like. Agression is due to both nature and nurture....so my point was why would you want a dog that you had to train to not be a lethal weapon given all the other options out there. I've not yet heard a person list a strength of the "bully breeds" that isn't present in spades in other less aggressive breeds. Can you list some positive traits of pit bulls and will see if they are somehow unique?

 

Once will biking down the Burke Gilman (at the park near bothel), I came upon quite a spectacle. Two pitbulls, apparently from the same litter, on a forked leash, in a death match, tethered together by the same leash that the frantic screaming sobbing owner was walking them with not 2 minutes earlier. Apparently something triggered a disaggreement, and they both "snapped". She tried in vain for 3 minutes to separate them while their blood was running all over the paved trail. Finally, after 5 minutes, someone heeded my advice (I might have stepped in myself but I was in bike cleats and not particularly nimble) and dragged the duo by the leash into the lake until they could no longer touch bottom and they had to separate or drown. Actually one slipped it's collar and swam to shore, and once secured, the other was carried in. I think they both lived, but it was pretty traumatic to them and everyone within a 300 yard radius.

 

Every since, I've been pretty down on pitbulls. Of course, not all breeds have the wow value of a pit bull, but if you need a dog to look cool, you've got problems.

 

so you are telling me you are judging a whole group of breeds by one experience?

 

I could list the singled minded desire to please thier owner

the affection they show twords chidren in thier family

thier inttelegence

I like that they are active but not bouncy and over active like most labs

but none of that will ever change your mind

just like nothing will ever remove the vision of a small child having it's face removed by a black lab.

I like american bull dogs

boxers

mastifs

bull mastifs

rotuilers

amstaff terriors

pit bulls (there is a differnece... there are acutaly 3 breeds that most people confuse with "pit bulls"

to name a few... all of my best dog experiences have been with these breeds of dog. It isn't about WOW factor it is about personal preference. I love how bullys have lots of skin and it lends this expressiveness to thier face that other dogs just do not have. it makes my heart pitter patter. I love theri floppy sloppy jowls and that when they drink every one with in 10 feet will get a bath if they arn't careful. it makes me laugh with they grin becuase many of them do. They have this sweet little under bite (boxers) and sometimes they just grin at you and look right in your eyes to your soul. they are silly and funny and often stay puppy like well into thier 3rd year. The boxer i grew up wtih had sweet puppy triats until she dies at 14. I lover how when they are excited they all wag thier tails so hard they wag thier butts. all of the bully breed dogs i have known have been important valued members of thier families. they are the type of dog that you never have to wonder if they love you becasue they go out of thier way to show you a million times a day.

[sk]

A neighbor of my ex-wife's had a Brittney Spaniel that "loved kids".

One day (about 15 years ago) it ripped the cheek off a 3 year old who had played with it in the past. The cheek was a loose flap that had to be re-attached. There have been successive surgeries over the years.

"But my dog would never bite". Is ignorrance. A loose dog around my little girls was always the subject of my attention.

I would not hesitate to kill a dog by whatever means available that was biting my daughters.

 

I totally agree with that statement. i now have to google a britney spanial... I am not familiare with the breed

Luv ya Muff

 

Luv you too Bug

[MarkMcJizzy]

I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog

I get really tired of this BS. Bully breeds are more dangerous. When a Lab goes crazy, he or she gives someone a little nip. It's bad, but a couple of stitches fixes stuff up. When a Bull goes crazy, death and destruction follows. Bully breeds are the cannine equivalent of Ghengis Khans Mongol hoards. Labs are primarily concerned with fetching, being friends, swimming, being friends, fetching, being friends, and more swimming.

[sk]

I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog

I get really tired of this BS. Bully breeds are more dangerous. When a Lab goes crazy, he or she gives someone a little nip. It's bad, but a couple of stitches fixes stuff up. When a Bull goes crazy, death and destruction follows. Bully breeds are the cannine equivalent of Ghengis Khans Mongol hoards. Labs are primarily concerned with fetching, being friends, swimming, being friends, fetching, being friends, and more swimming.

 

 

go on and believe what the media want you to believe.

[sk]

I think sometimes people forget we are all talking about the same species of animal. It's liek arguing that a lyon is less dangerous than a tiger.

[rob]

I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog

I get really tired of this BS. Bully breeds are more dangerous.

 

Glad someone called BS on this BS. Pit bulls are definitely more dangerous -- statistically. Google it.

 

Think about it, Muff -- they are a more powerful dog, so, assuming that ALL dogs have the same propensity for violence (an unfair claim, but let's assume it), then a more powerful dog is by definition more dangerous. Duh. What is more dangerous? A pitbull, or a toy poodle? You're saying a pit bull isn't more risky than a toy poodle -- not even a little bit?

 

Sorry muff, but you know it's true.

Edited June 3, 2008 by rob

[MarkMcJizzy]

And the media covers up everytime a kid is killed by a lab? It's a big conspiracy to rob you of your desire to own a docile little pet?

[rob]

I think sometimes people forget we are all talking about the same species of animal. It's liek arguing that a lyon is less dangerous than a tiger.

 

 

Is a lion more dangerous than a tabby?