time to pry his rifle

[Raindawg]

and this thread is now the excuse for me to impart the obscure bit of trivia i have crawling around in my head - today's the 63 anniversary of the liberation of the buchenwald concentration camp.

 

Actually, it's tomorrow. April 11, 1945 at 3:15 PM (where the clock tower is still set to that time.)

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You haven't helped your case.

 

You have no case.

 

 

Nice way to honor their memory.

 

And an appropriate way to defend their memory.

 

BOLT IT!

[archenemy]

You haven't helped your case.

 

Isn't Raindawg's posts here really the other side of the coin from that T'vash added? Both are seeking to be be provocative just because it is fun to poke somebody in the eyes. Perhaps there is something about Dawg's post that you find manipulative or dishonest in some small way, but hey: isn't that the norm for spray postings? How is any of this any worse than the daily spew of insults and lies that we have come to expect in the Spray forum and some seem to think can rightfully spill over to other areas of the board?

The whole thing is amusing; and Spray isn't to blame. Folks just need to lighten up a bit. I mean, come on--you can have your head in spray and still be grounded in reality. Tvash's Moses comment is nothing to get riled about. I even believe in God and the Bible, and that belief didn't get shaken, stirred, or miffed in the least by his comment. I've also seen lots of pics and read lots of history on the horrors of war. And although RD's posting of those pics are enough to upset anyone with half a heart, they are not enough to get one's hackle's up to the point of being defensive.

 

Spray is spray, history is history, religion is religion. Everyone can calm down and let the rightous indignation ebb and flow as it will. If you don't feel personally attacked, you won't be bothered by anything on that level. If you recognize that folks are obviously upset and angered by the harm they see being done to other people, you can easily empathize with everyone else on this board.

[Raindawg]

Isn't Raindawg's posts here really the other side of the coin from that T'vash added? Both are seeking to be be provocative just because it is fun to poke somebody in the eyes. Perhaps there is something about Dawg's post that you find manipulative or dishonest in some small way.

 

Once again (and again, and again) your speculative attempts to discern other's motivations (at least mine) are utterly WEAK and WRONG. I find NOTHING FUN about responding to these kinds of comments, mattp, and if you think I'm insincere, then you don't know me very well (and you don't).

 

[mattp]

To me, there isn't such a big difference, Tvash. This whole thread has had its amusing side, to be sure, but it is full of posturing and jabs and at some level I don't really think your provocation is all that different from the insane complaint about how could someone stoop so low as to insult Charlton Heston in this time of mourning, or a purposefully offensive remark about Judaism is akin to lauding the holocaust. Yes, you may be less prone to the same dramatics or deception that some more often employ, and maybe you have a better sense of humor than some, but you still play the same game of trying to one-up each other with who can be more insulting and taking delight in cleverly or not so cleverly crafting a rapid fire stream of put-downs. With this as a daily reality, how can anybody be surprised if somebody posts an image that we all of the sudden think is REALLY over the line, or if they go off on an insane tirade or whatever.

 

My point is that Raindaw's post is no worse than many others we see on a daily basis and I think JayB's "intervention" is really not that far off either. It's ok to slam each other all day long, talk about what you did to the other guy's mother or call them a moron, but whoa: it is out of line to post a picture of the holocaust?

[mattp]

Raindawg, whatever. You clearly and I assume deliberately misrepresented my role in the Vertical Hiker thread yesterday, and you continue to engage in such manipulation on a regular basis. Get over yourself, however, and look what I'm doing here: I'm arguing that you have a right to do so. At least in Spray as we conceive it.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

To me, there isn't such a big difference, Tvash. This whole thread has had its amusing side, to be sure, but it is full of posturing and jabs and at some level I don't really think your provocation is all that different from the insane complaint about how could someone stoop so low as to insult Charlton Heston in this time of mourning, or a purposefully offensive remark about Judaism is akin to lauding the holocaust. Yes, you may be less prone to the same dramatics or deception that some more often employ, and maybe you have a better sense of humor than some, but you still play the same game of trying to one-up each other with who can be more insulting and taking delight in cleverly or not so cleverly crafting a rapid fire stream of put-downs. With this as a daily reality, how can anybody be surprised if somebody posts an image that we all of the sudden think is REALLY over the line, or if they go off on an insane tirade or whatever.

 

My point is that Raindaw's post is no worse than many others we see on a daily basis and I think JayB's "intervention" is really not that far off either. It's ok to slam each other all day long, talk about what you did to the other guy's mother or call them a moron, but whoa: it is out of line to post a picture of the holocaust?

 

for once, I agree with mattp.

[olyclimber]

HELLO. I'M HERE TO CORRECT WRONGS DONE ON THE INTERNET.

[mattp]

The whole thing is amusing; and Spray isn't to blame. Folks just need to lighten up a bit. I mean, come on--you can have your head in spray and still be grounded in reality. Tvash's Moses comment is nothing to get riled about. I even believe in God and the Bible, and that belief didn't get shaken, stirred, or miffed in the least by his comment. I've also seen lots of pics and read lots of history on the horrors of war. And although RD's posting of those pics are enough to upset anyone with half a heart, they are not enough to get one's hackle's up to the point of being defensive.

 

Spray is spray, history is history, religion is religion. Everyone can calm down and let the rightous indignation ebb and flow as it will. If you don't feel personally attacked, you won't be bothered by anything on that level. If you recognize that folks are obviously upset and angered by the harm they see being done to other people, you can easily empathize with everyone else on this board.

 

[JayB]

You haven't helped your case.

 

Isn't Raindawg's posts here really the other side of the coin from that T'vash added? Both are seeking to be be provocative just because it is fun to poke somebody in the eyes. Perhaps there is something about Dawg's post that you find manipulative or dishonest in some small way, but hey: isn't that the norm for spray postings? How is any of this any worse than the daily spew of insults and lies that we have come to expect in the Spray forum and some seem to think can rightfully spill over to other areas of the board?

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree.

 

Cracking jokes about religion to be provocative and using images of people slaughtered in the Holocaust than for no reason other than to "draw attention" to one's offended religious sensibilities strike me as profoundly different things, with latter much offensive than the former.

 

Heaven help us if we lose the capacity to make distinctions between someone critiquing someone's claim of a carbon neutral Denali ascent, and someone appropriating Holocaust imagery to dramatize his hurt feelings.

 

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Cracking jokes about religion to be provocative and using images of people slaughtered in the Holocaust than for no reason other than to "draw attention" to one's offended religious sensibilities strike me as profoundly different things, with latter much offensive than the former.

 

less offensive to you because you're not religious. Duh.

[tvashtarkatena]

Isn't Raindawg's posts here really the other side of the coin from that T'vash added? Both are seeking to be be provocative just because it is fun to poke somebody in the eyes. Perhaps there is something about Dawg's post that you find manipulative or dishonest in some small way.

 

Once again (and again, and again) your speculative attempts to discern other's motivations (at least mine) are utterly WEAK and WRONG. I find NOTHING FUN about responding to these kinds of comments, mattp, and if you think I'm insincere, then you don't know me very well (and you don't).

 

If you find nothing FUN about this, then WHY are you WASTING your TIME on a forum that's specifically FOCUSED on nothing BUT having FUN? (Explanation of joke: my use of CAPS is meant to mock your use of same). If you can't understand where others are coming from (that's obvious), then do you really have an expectation that you will somehow sanction or curtail the behavior of others here?

 

What a waste of time and effort. But, then again, the anti-bolting revolution is just around the corner (Explanation of joke: bolting will likely continue or increase over time etc, etc.....)

[tvashtarkatena]

Cracking jokes about religion to be provocative and using images of people slaughtered in the Holocaust than for no reason other than to "draw attention" to one's offended religious sensibilities strike me as profoundly different things, with latter much offensive than the former.

 

less offensive to you because you're not religious. Duh.

 

No. JayB correctly ascertained that no anti-religious jokes were made.

 

I have poked fun at religions before, but not in this thread. If you don't get that, well,

 

you're stupid, and I'm sorry...

 

 

 

 

...that you're stupid.

[mattp]

less offensive to you because you're not religious. Duh.

 

For once, I agree with KK here.

[sexual_chocolate]

You haven't helped your case.

 

Isn't Raindawg's posts here really the other side of the coin from that T'vash added? Both are seeking to be be provocative just because it is fun to poke somebody in the eyes. Perhaps there is something about Dawg's post that you find manipulative or dishonest in some small way, but hey: isn't that the norm for spray postings? How is any of this any worse than the daily spew of insults and lies that we have come to expect in the Spray forum and some seem to think can rightfully spill over to other areas of the board?

 

There's a big difference, Matt; I get the jokes here.

 

buahahahaaaa. you ARE the joke here.

 

 

i believe cc.com is tvash's GRIPPER proxy.

 

 

(btw, your arrogance keeps you from seeing your own short-comings. just a thought.)

[tvashtarkatena]

To me, there isn't such a big difference, Tvash. This whole thread has had its amusing side, to be sure, but it is full of posturing and jabs and at some level I don't really think your provocation is all that different from the insane complaint about how could someone stoop so low as to insult Charlton Heston in this time of mourning, or a purposefully offensive remark about Judaism is akin to lauding the holocaust.

 

Except that no such offensive remark about Judaism was ever uttered. Small detail. I made fun of Leavenworth, and Charleton Heston. I assumed that was really obvious, but I guess not.

 

As for making fun of dead celebrities, fuck em. None of us knew them personally, they were willing public figures, and they're as fair game dead as alive. I'm not mourning the motherfucker, that's for sure.

[JayB]

Cracking jokes about religion to be provocative and using images of people slaughtered in the Holocaust than for no reason other than to "draw attention" to one's offended religious sensibilities strike me as profoundly different things, with latter much offensive than the former.

 

less offensive to you because you're not religious. Duh.

 

Yea - but there's a significant moral distinction between the two. Refusing to honor other people's religious taboos strikes me as something entirely different than using images of people that died in concentration camps for theatrical purposes.

 

Most religious people don't abide by the taboos of rival faiths, and it's unreasonable to expect them to do so. I don't think that non-believers taking the same liberty with all faiths that believers take with particular elements of other faiths is all that egregious an offense.

 

I also think that context is important. It's reasonable to expect non-believers or persons adhering to different faiths to keep their comments to themselves at particular times and in particular settings - like when one is attending their weddings, paying your respects at their funerals, sitting in on a service wherever they worship, when you are a guest in their home. It's not reasonable to expect this deference in many other settings, including most internet message boards.

[sexual_chocolate]

holy crap! look at what i found on the internet!

 

some sick twisted posters out there!

 

 

 

 

 

[ivan]

it was 2 faced bullshit christians that did that shit to the jews and who make up the majority of the current administration - we could use a few more fuck jesus/moses/ahuramazda types.

 

It was amoral atheists who infected the world with this and other genocides, some of whom *were* raised Christian (or Jewish in the case of Stalinist Russia), but hardly were practicing believers, but go on and delude yourself. I'd like to see far more good people of faith than faithless atheists who arrogantly say "fuck j****". No, fuck you.

 

i'll grant you that stalin and mao were aethists and monsters, but history has a much longer list of moses and jesus-lovers who were every bit as bad; folks who sincerely ascribe themselves to a hocus-pocus religion have wrecked more havoc on this earth than the enlightened few who have cast aside the boogeymen of their primitive ancestors. the bottom line is to fear anyone who thinks they have the whole world figured out for themselves and everybody else in it - aetheistic, aggressive communism was a relgion in that sense. most christians seem incapable of seperating their belief in the big-guy in the bathrobe from the corollary belief that, being part of the faithful, they then have the right to tell me how to live my life. i'm an apathetic aestheist - the universe means nothing more than what i choose it to mean, there is no great calling, and i don't give a shit what you believe in or how you live you're life, just leave me the fuck alone about it.

[JayB]

less offensive to you because you're not religious. Duh.

 

For once, I agree with KK here.

 

Well - you're going to like this one bit, then:

 

"

Open Letter To Kansas School Board

 

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.

 

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

 

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.

 

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

 

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.

 

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.

 

In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

 

Sincerely Yours,

 

Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.

 

P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures."

 

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Yea - but there's a significant moral distinction between the two. Refusing to honor other people's religious taboos strikes me as something entirely different than using images of people that died in concentration camps for theatrical purposes.

 

Bullshit. Certain individuals here are doing far more than avoiding a religious taboo. Saying "fuck Moses" is far beyond merely refusing to abide by some taboo, it's intentionally maximizing offensiveness and contempt. In such a case just about any response - including those images - can hardly be faulted as "over the bounds". The bounds have already been overshot.

 

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

i don't think he said "fuck moses".

[sexual_chocolate]

i think he said "moses should suck my my penis" or something like that.

 

which is obviously absurd since moses passed a long time ago.

[Raindawg]

11th Commandement:

 

Hey Moses: Thou shalt suck me.

 

You may have heard the expression: "is nothing sacred"? The answer is, yes, some things are to many people, and very deeply so(including at least six million people who were murdered for their religious beliefs or associated ethnicity.)

In a free society, you can piss all over Christianity, Judaism, or whatever, but again, don't expect that you won't be called out on it. You should be. Some of us don't believe in sitting around and watching it treated like some big joke. By responding, at least the awareness is being spread that some people really care about this stuff and maybe you'll reconsider the nature of your ugly comments next time. I doubt it, but maybe.

 

[sexual_chocolate]

would you all be as offended if moses turned out to be gay, and would have actually been delighted by tvash's offer?