grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I found it pretty easy to bullshit my way through interpreting symbolism in DeLillo versus cloning DNA. OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way at the time... Funny, when I went back to school later in life, I took all the science and math classes I didn't have to take as an English major and found it so freeing to use a different side of the brain, and fun. I think both discipline areas (hard science and humanities) are equally important to study in life...I really do. So for that reason, YES, I think teachers should be paid exactly the same, except in high demand fields - let the market decide. The state of Washington was really big on literacy, and now the legislative focus is shifting towards math/sciences...personally, I think the whole system needs an overhaul and our students (and parents) need to be working way harder than they are in all areas. Quote
selkirk Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 How would your peers in the teacher's union feel about paying math/chem/physics teachers more than the folks teaching humanities or PE? i'm in a teacher's union and it isn't anathema to me to see higher pay for jobs that are actually harder to fill - that seems like straight market economics to me - if you wanna reduce my pay so you can pay a math teacher more though that will be pissing me off, as well as insinuating that what i teach (social studies) is less valuable that math/science in the grand scheme of things. Seems like that's what would have to happen eventually if supply and demand ever factored into teacher salaries. Maybe not straight off the bat, but when you are taking the funds out of the same pot - eventually someone with a BA in English is going to top out at a lower comp level, or get a smaller merit increase - and that money will be landing in the hands of the folks with the more valuable (in the strict economic sense) qualifications. Knowing what I do about the respective difficulties associated with securing a degree in the hard sciences, versus securing a degree in the humanities (did both), I think I'd be pissed off if the guy with the degree in English was making the same amount of money that I was. Is there even such a thing as a "weed-out" course in English programs? Seems like taking the money out of administrator pay, or cutting the number of administrator's would be a politically acceptable way to get beyond the "fairness" impasse.... All this "English Major" bashing is starting to piss me off...so of course you know now what I studied! There were PLENTY of "weed-out" courses...ever taken a course in Post-Modern American Poetry? A little Ezra Pound? Read much Thomas Pynchon or DeLillo? Writing critical theory abstracts?! Puh-lease! Though I will grant you that most of those were electives, not required, so I guess one could get an English degree without going taking courses like "Chaos Theory in Literature" like I did. My only point is, please stop bashing the English Majors! Some of them (like me) are really good at math/physics too!! I would agree with your point about administrators however... No bashing intended. However, the reality is that it'll take the average person far more time and effort to get a degree in the hard sciences or engineering than it will for them to get a degree in either the social sciences or the humanities. Getting out in 4 years with an engineering degree is getting harder and harder. When I went through (close to 10 years ago) I took 1 upper division humanities elective too early (sophomore year instead of senior) and that alone nearly screwed up my coursework schedule enough so that it could have taken me 5 years. Had to get special permission to ignore pre-requisites on a few classes I never remember hearing about issues like that outside of engineering/sciences. and by "not having weed out classes" I don't think he meant not having hard classes, but not having classes where 30% of the students fail every semester. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 and by "not having weed out classes" I don't think he meant not having hard classes, but not having classes where 30% of the students fail every semester. I see what you're saying - like Anatomy & Physiology for nursing majors or something like that...where a high proportion fail. OK, so I think the closest thing in the English path is literary theory (which isn't a cake walk). Quote
Hugh Conway Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way at the time... Funny, when I went back to school later in life, I took all the science and math classes I didn't have to take as an English major and found it so freeing to use a different side of the brain, and fun. I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. Quote
TREETOAD Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Rumr..follow your bliss..you will never go wrong Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 and by "not having weed out classes" I don't think he meant not having hard classes, but not having classes where 30% of the students fail every semester. I see what you're saying - like Anatomy & Physiology for nursing majors or something like that...where a high proportion fail. OK, so I think the closest thing in the English path is literary theory (which isn't a cake walk). Yah, but hard science classes are often taught by fucknuts with horrible accents who don't care for shit about teaching or whether you learn (where's the next grant coming from?), and make a high attrition rate just because they can. There's a middle ground somewhere where liberal arts and hard science disciplines could be very comparable. Quote
olyclimber Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way at the time... Funny, when I went back to school later in life, I took all the science and math classes I didn't have to take as an English major and found it so freeing to use a different side of the brain, and fun. I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. and who is smarter? Quote
ken4ord Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 the problem is that i'm completely overwhelmed, can't get stuff done fast enough...and our department head won't hire more people...constant overtime week in week out...i missed a winter ski trip with my family, i missed a spring break with my family, jeezus fuckin' christ...i can hardly find time to go to a gym for an hour a flikin' week... oh, and pink...you're a total fuckin' punk bitch... and cheam...dig it while you can, man...i used to frame when i was going to college...i loved it... I thought you freaking hate skiing, I would think you would be happy about this one. I am in the same place and really hating my job and wishing I was in some sort of trade work where I can be outside. Someday maybe. Quote
AlpineK Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Shhhh... Rudy's trying to hide his love of skiing. Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 How would your peers in the teacher's union feel about paying math/chem/physics teachers more than the folks teaching humanities or PE? i'm in a teacher's union and it isn't anathema to me to see higher pay for jobs that are actually harder to fill - that seems like straight market economics to me - if you wanna reduce my pay so you can pay a math teacher more though that will be pissing me off, as well as insinuating that what i teach (social studies) is less valuable that math/science in the grand scheme of things. Seems like that's what would have to happen eventually if supply and demand ever factored into teacher salaries. Maybe not straight off the bat, but when you are taking the funds out of the same pot - eventually someone with a BA in English is going to top out at a lower comp level, or get a smaller merit increase - and that money will be landing in the hands of the folks with the more valuable (in the strict economic sense) qualifications. Knowing what I do about the respective difficulties associated with securing a degree in the hard sciences, versus securing a degree in the humanities (did both), I think I'd be pissed off if the guy with the degree in English was making the same amount of money that I was. Is there even such a thing as a "weed-out" course in English programs? Seems like taking the money out of administrator pay, or cutting the number of administrator's would be a politically acceptable way to get beyond the "fairness" impasse.... All this "English Major" bashing is starting to piss me off...so of course you know now what I studied! There were PLENTY of "weed-out" courses...ever taken a course in Post-Modern American Poetry? A little Ezra Pound? Read much Thomas Pynchon or DeLillo? Writing critical theory abstracts?! Puh-lease! Though I will grant you that most of those were electives, not required, so I guess one could get an English degree without going taking courses like "Chaos Theory in Literature" like I did. My only point is, please stop bashing the English Majors! Some of them (like me) are really good at math/physics too!! I would agree with your point about administrators however... No bashing intended. However, the reality is that it'll take the average person far more time and effort to get a degree in the hard sciences or engineering than it will for them to get a degree in either the social sciences or the humanities. Funny, the university I attended had four year programs for both liberal arts degrees and science degrees. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. and who is smarter? Yup - English Professor wins here...by far! Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I found it pretty easy to bullshit my way through interpreting symbolism in DeLillo versus cloning DNA. OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. tumescence, detumescence. The description of the path of the firwork in the middle gives visual representation to the allegory of the day described in the novel. Done. Quote
bwrts Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Shhhh... Rudy's trying to hide his love of skiing. BWHAHAHA now that is totally what you need RUDY. I will meet you up at the pass wheneever to go skiing. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I am in the same place and really hating my job and wishing I was in some sort of trade work where I can be outside. Someday maybe. I've gone back and forth on that issue myself - left my office job for working in agriculture (on an ATV inspecting vineyards all day long, changing pipes, cutting hay, pruning trees...), but then went back to an office job after a few years. A lot of "trade work" doesn't have the same mental stimulation as a lot of indoor jobs...if I could find one that used both mind and hands, I'd be happy! I think the important thing is to listen to your gut - do what you feel you need to be doing, and then be open to that changing. Of course, some people would see my career path as a bit flakey cuz I'm open to a lot of change! Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Ah, the voice of youth. All that shit changes when you have people depending on you for food and housing. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I found it pretty easy to bullshit my way through interpreting symbolism in DeLillo versus cloning DNA. OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. tumescence, detumescence. The description of the path of the firwork in the middle gives visual representation to the allegory of the day described in the novel. Done. Bullshit or comprehending? Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 If you can't tell the difference, then who can? Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Ah, the voice of youth. All that shit changes when you have people depending on you for food and housing. Oh, Absolutely!!!! I'm totally spoiled (and not that young) because I have no dependents. Yah, so don't listen to me Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Youth is not only a number. It is, however, refreshing to listen to and always a fun trip down memory lane. Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Youth is not only a number. It is, however, refreshing to listen to and always a fun trip down memory lane. Yup, eternal dreamer here. One of those really annoying optimists who thinks anything is possible! Quote
archenemy Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) Me too. Which is why I think it is possible to just hang in there and wait out the crappy times at work. Changing your setting won't change your mood that much for that long. Want to really change things? Change your perception. Of course, sometimes work just sucks. Edited April 8, 2008 by archenemy Quote
grtmtnchic Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Me too. Which is why I think it is possible to just hang in there and wait out the crappy times at work. Changing your setting won't change your mood that much for that long. Want to really change things? Change your perception. That's a really good point...maybe I should try it! Quote
Hugh Conway Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way at the time... Funny, when I went back to school later in life, I took all the science and math classes I didn't have to take as an English major and found it so freeing to use a different side of the brain, and fun. I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. and who is smarter? The drunk at the bar. Duh. Quote
olyclimber Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 OK, so Delillo is easy...better example: my senior seminar was on Ulysses by James Joyce...I think deciphering that piece of crap is akin to cloning DNA. I could be wrong, but it sure seemed that way at the time... Funny, when I went back to school later in life, I took all the science and math classes I didn't have to take as an English major and found it so freeing to use a different side of the brain, and fun. I'm not seeing your point. Particle Physicists read novels like Finnegan's Wake. English professors read navels of comely undergrads. and who is smarter? The drunk at the bar. Duh. different strokes for different folks, name your poison, etc Quote
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