The $8000 Squamish Route

[jmace]

I only know a couple of people that headed up there and they turned back quickly

 

I geuss it all depends on what your looking for..I remember Fern telling me that one of the belays was her wedged in a crack like a giant chockstone or sumtin

 

 

[dberdinka]

 

 

So can someone describe exactly what $10,000 has bought? Is he paying himself a salary? Are the belay bolts made of solid platinum? Or is that simply the cost of a portable air compressor these days?

 

I'm all for their efforts, I just can't get around the dollar figure!

Edited March 13, 2008 by dberdinka

[jmace]

North North Arete has had some good reports too, never been in the North gully I think Drew has though sounded like a neat day out

[hafilax]

The NN Arete is great fun although Mike Hengeveld called it a 'nightmare'. I didn't find it very overgrown although it was my first route to the top of the Chief and that was a few years ago now.

 

$10,000?! I dunno. There's some inexperience at play there. They've gone through heaps of rope and destroyed a lot of gear due to the extremely abrasive nature of the excavation. I don't really know what the compressor deal is all about. Jeff has been very patient in dealing with the criticism he's received. He's already responded to a number of questions at squamishclimbing.com in the route development section. He even won an argument over the renaming of the line (with one of the FA's i believe).

[jmace]

He talks about gas, buying a van, a replacement engine so maybe that is all added in as well

 

 

[MATT_B]

I would love to see some close up before and after pictures. I'm not convinced that this is a good thing. To me, it sounds they may have gone a bit overboard.

[tradclimbguy]

I think the biggest thing is that the rock stays undamaged. Screw the trees, they'll grow right back if nobody climbs the route, it's not like damaging delicate desert growth or something. I mean just look at the pictures in the guide from 30 years ago compared to today. Global Warming has created a perfect climate for all those trees up there.

 

I just think they figure they have to dig most every route out anyway, what's the difference if the amount of digging is slightly bigger? Especially if they keep some trees and things still on the route.

 

I just hope they finish up so I don't have to worry about falling trees and dirt while on Millenium Falcon.

[giza]

Billcoe, that's the Kacodemon boulder and that little bit of history is a fucking travesty.

[fern]

The natural vegetation on the Crap Crags line includes lots of "full grown" trees - i.e. multiple decades old cedars etc. that can be tied off, climbed, provide shade that limits the regrowth of brush etc. There's a neat feature where a cedar is growing right up against a leaning boulder so that the branches form a natural overhanging ladder. A lot of the rock in the chimneys is actually shit - decomposing oatmeal and loose flakes. Plenty of pitches of Crap Crags it is easier and safer to pull on the veg. But so what - transplant yourself to WA Pass or Anderson River group or Black Canyon or wherever and guess what you have to climb sometimes? Shitty dirty rock as part of a larger adventure. It's Nature (capital N). I just don't understand the need to be so destructive and heavy-handed in this case.

When you chop out evergreens what grows back is bushes - alders and vine maples and blueberries - that are much less conducive to belaying or climbing. Clean sterile granite is rare and short-lived in Squamish.

Anyone who thinks this "cleanup" is going to magically eliminate the ubiquitous Diedre line-up - or have any effect whatsoever on the crowded easy routes during the Squamish peak season is following some branch of logic or experience that eludes me.

 

[jmace]

Well I just dont think there is really that much to complain about, if its a mossy shitty natural funnel for shit off the chief then it wont work and it will return to its current state of bush and no climbers.

 

I was under the impression they are leaving most trees in place, and that the other new router in the area was doing more chopping than the Europa crew wanted.

 

The logic is one more long route will be available for newbies albeit for a very short period of climbing time. I dont think UE or Upper Echelon are good routes either but they attract folks looking to get long easy days in so why not this route. Diedre will never be uncrowded

 

I think in the end most climbers figure its a waste of time and thats probaby right but I dont think it forms a reasonable argument of why it shoulndt be tried

 

What do you think of the mess right of Penny Lane..seems fairly heavy handed for much much less

[Wakaranai]

I only wish that they would post a note at the trailhead so we dont hike all the way to the base only to find that millenium falcon is roped off and littered with trees and dirt. Not like its a long hike but long enough of a walk that its a bit annoying. It might be nice to have an easy route to the top of the Cheif but jeeze air compressors and come alongs??? Just put a little effort in and do the Buttress which is like 5.9 anyways. I hope after all that work it turns out to be a good one for them. Does anyone know how the progress is going? Are we there yet?

[summerprophet]

It's hard to imagine good climbing coming out of something called Crap Crags.

Crap crags actually used to be a pretty good route in the early 80's (sadly before I was climbing) it has since been consumed by the forest. Such is the nature of Squamish, the first true "Big Wall" route in Squamish was apparently an incredible line, with truly spectular climbing to the left of Uniiversity Wall, called "The Northwest Passage". Try to find it now, you can't even imagine a line through that jungle these days.

 

[G-spotter]

It's hard to imagine good climbing coming out of something called Crap Crags.

Crap crags actually used to be a pretty good route in the early 80's (sadly before I was climbing)

 

That's a lie. Crap Crags was a piece of shit ever since the day it was first climbed. But in the 70s before gardening, so was most every other climb in Squamish - dirty and full of bushes. The only difference is that some of those routes like Diedre cleaned up into quality. Crap Crags on the other hand is a zone of inherent weakness and contains fridge-sized loose blocks ( a friend in the early 90s got 3 broken ribs when a block in the top chimney came off onto his chest) and gravelly crap. You cannot make this into a good route by removing some bushes. If all the veg was gone Crap Crags would be just like the oatmeal pitches on Yak.

[plexus]

Crap Crags was a fine adventure route. The trees made for consistent shady belays on a sunny exposure, the 5.7+ grade was fair compared to WA Pass or Snow Ck Wall, but not consistent with Smoke Bluffs grading.

 

I'm confused by this statement, probably because I'm over four years removed from climbing in these locations. Is Smoke Bluffs easy or sandbag? I always thought it was a little on the soft side compared to places like Index and Joshua Tree.

 

Sorry about the thread drift.

 

And to reiterate a post made earlier, I can climb much harder than 5.4, yet a romp up in the Flatirons is fun every once in a while. I think it all depends on how "safe" they make it. Are we talking Darrington safe or Exit 38 safe?

 

 

 

[vanisle]

billcoe I think that was kacodameon boulder at the base of the grand wall

[fern]

Crap Crags was a fine adventure route. The trees made for consistent shady belays on a sunny exposure, the 5.7+ grade was fair compared to WA Pass or Snow Ck Wall, but not consistent with Smoke Bluffs grading.

 

I'm confused by this statement, probably because I'm over four years removed from climbing in these locations. Is Smoke Bluffs easy or sandbag? I always thought it was a little on the soft side compared to places like Index and Joshua Tree.

 

 

Smoke bluffs grades are soft as little bunnywabbit whapped in fuzzywuzzy bwanket. Wiring Laughing Crack and Burgers&Fries will not teach you the skills that will get you up Crap Crags with happy joyful friendship time - though all are rated 5.7. Dig?

[plexus]

are soft as little bunnywabbit whapped in fuzzywuzzy bwanket

 

For a second there I thought I was reading a story to my nieces and nephews!! sickie

 

That's what I thought you meant, just wanted to be clear. You are absolutely right. But the more I have read on the route description, the more I get the feeling that those skills will be less required. It's the dumbing down of climbing that I see more and more often.

[hafilax]

It's not dumbing down it's called feel-good-climbing. Who wants to get spanked day in day out on a 5.7? Call it a 5.8 and suddenly all that groveling feels like an accomplishment.

[Cairns]

It's not dumbing down it's called feel-good-climbing. Who wants to get spanked day in day out on a 5.7? Call it a 5.8 and suddenly all that groveling feels like an accomplishment.

 

So how does Crap Crags 5.7 compare to Clean Corner 5.8?

[G-spotter]

The crux chimney on Crap Crags got 5.8+ in the Campbell guide. Was downgraded to 5.7 in the first McLane guide. Not quite sure why.

[Choada_Boy]

$8000??? What's that work out to for each foot of climbing?

[billcoe]

About what a high end hooker now costs when converted to Loonies.

 

Why?

[cheamclimber]

it seems like squamish ratings are rather soft.. I grade a climb at harrison 5.10c and some squamish 5.12 climbers can't work it out... and some squamish climbers think that the 5.9 Great expectations is a 5.10 but its very easy.. its a bit weird!

[cheamclimber]

btw if they finish the climb it would be fun to solo , I would totally free solo a 5.7 route to the top of the chief

[billcoe]

it seems like squamish ratings are rather soft.. I grade a climb at harrison 5.10c and some squamish 5.12 climbers can't work it out... and some squamish climbers think that the 5.9 Great expectations is a 5.10 but its very easy.. its a bit weird!

 

I know, but ya got to love that. My very first time at Squamish, about 1 mo before the trip, I'd ripped every finger tendon in my left hand. I'd tried to get on stuff in the gym right before the trip so as to stretch out my muscles and try to get a feel for the rock before the trip, but it was excruciating, so I was just going to go because I'd earlier told my buddies I would.

 

First route - I just eyeball a line from the ground, jump on it. Fingers weren't stressed at all. After I get down my buddy Bill looks it up in the guide and it says 10d.

 

That was back when 10d meant something....well, in Yosemite it meant something anyway:-) Sure made me feel good though.