Mt. Hood Wilderness Blocked Again

[Couloir]

I find this news in The Oregonian particularly aggravating due to the amount of hard work put in by both Oregon senators (particularly Wyden). They took their time to make sure everyone was satisfied with the legislation only to have it derailed at the 11th hour by Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. And for what appears to be no apparent reason.

 

Well, I sent the good Doctor a letter expressing my displeasure. It would be great if others did as well.

[Hampton]

My letter just sent:

 

"I read this morning that, in spite of bipartisan support for it, you derailed the Mt. Hood Wilderness bill.

 

I think you are a dick."

[billcoe]

I oppose turning the area into a Faux wilderness. What a bunch of bullshit.

 

You want to do something truly constructive write these dudes a letter. And please be nice.

link

[ivan]

explain bill - what do you mean a faux wilderness?

 

still, always hard fighting the urge to heap color language on a fawking okie, no?

[111]

what a fuckin tool. Can we incarcerate him?

[Fairweather]

Good for Coburn. I support Wilderness and the concept of Wilderness Areas, but until road repair/access issues are resolved the 'Wilderness' designation gives environmental extremists too much leverage to limit reasonable access for hikers, climbers, and mountain bikes. I will use the link to express my sentiments and support of Coburn's intransigence.

 

I still haven't forgotten how "Wilderness Watch" tried to force the USFS to severely limit climber access on the south side of Hood using an extreme interpretation of language in The Wilderness Act just a few years ago.

[Winter]

This is just one more step in a long journey to a better permanent legacy for the people of Oregon. This bill has broad bi-partisan support from all members of Oregon's Congressional delegation as well as the Bush Whitehouse. It will pass.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Winter

[billcoe]

explain bill - what do you mean a faux wilderness?

 

I meant 2nd and in some places 3rd growth forests, which are so abundant and in fact planted and managed to be cut for our use as lumber being taken out of rotation and "protected" whatever that means.

 

Meantime, the tools will have another reason to restrict your usage and access due to the closeness of and use by a large amount of people who are otherwise doing minimal harm to the area. (see Fairweathers note above) It will come about in a matter of years, mark my words, you will be in the unfortunate position to see this happen if it passes. So they do have some major roads and developments through and throughout it and exempt the wilderness from that a few feet away: more bullshit. I'm tired of always getting MORE laws, MORE restrictions, MORE bureaucrats which end in LESS freedom. Especially if when there is no reason for it like in this instance. They tried to sell this by telling us "Oh, Mt Hood is a crown jewel and we should protect it". From what and why? It's doing fine as is, there are already numerous laws and restrictions in place and the area is essentially the same as it's always been. I understand some folks wanting to not have their drinking water trashed, you cannot travel into the Bull Run watershed at all. Understandable. However, there is watersheds protected all over the place and you don't need an act of congress to get there. No one will be putting in MORE roads in this area, so why do this wilderness thing at all? Pointless.

 

If they would put the last few strands of old growth in the PNW out of rotation I at least can get behind that in a big way due to the science and biology and need for preservation of a diversity that is disappearing fast and near gone except where it is preserved.

 

It's typical make believe do-gooder and weak-sauce feel-good politician crap Ivan that will serve no effective cause but to restrict your freedom and decrease the amount of timber available to cut, thus raising the cost to build a new home etc etc.

 

It's stupidity that should be opposed and I hope it stays down. Others feel differently for sure.

 

Madrone is a a worthy cause IMO to spend ones time writing letters about. Not this.

 

 

[font:Century Gothic]Disclaimer and Note: All recipients of this note please acknowledge the veracity, clarity and brevity of the following disclaimer which will not apply to you. This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool, process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your canceled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of owls. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time offer, call now to insure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only in well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flame. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more.Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Not all materials may be applicable in your jurisdiction. Not intended to be a substitute for professional advice. No implied endorsement of, or affiliation with, any linked sites. Path to individual pages may change please link to home page only. Serving suggestion. This disclaimer is meant for humorous purposes mainly. Send no money now. Ask your doctor or pharmacist. To prevent electric shock, do not open back door. No user-serviceable parts inside. You may or may not have additional rights which may vary from country to country. Not recommended for children under twelve years of age, adults, senior citizens, animals, insects, plants, or dead people. Batteries not included. Limit 1 per customer. Does not come with any other figures. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, living or dead, is unintentional and purely coincidental. Keep away from fire, open flame or spark. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. All rights reserved. List each check separately by bank number. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed; intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating and inhaling contents can be harmful or fatal. Parental discretion advised. No other warranty expressed or implied. Unauthorized copying of this disclaimer strictly prohibited. Do not read while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will not be paid by addressee. In case of eye contact, flush with water. Subject to approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Shipping and handling extra. No animals were harmed in the production of this disclaimer. Do not disturb. If condition persists, consult your physician. Fresher if consumed before date on carton. Prices subject to change without notice. Times approximate. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting, and if symptoms persist, consult a physician. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. We reserve the right to limit quantities. One size fits all. Do not leave funds without collecting a receipt. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-active ingredients. Colours may, in time, fade. We have sent the form which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. This product is only warranted to the original retail purchaser or gift recipient. For office use only. Net weight before cooking. Not affiliated with the Red Cross. Surfaces should be clean of paint,grease,dirt, etc. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. $2.98/min AE/V/MC. Post office will not deliver without postage. Simulated picture. List was current at time of printing. Penalty for private use. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Do not expose to direct sunlight. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error, or failure to perform. No Canadian coins. Do not puncture or incinerate empty container. See label for sequence. Do not write below this line. Time lock safe clerk cannot open. At participating locations only. Serial numbers must be visible. Align parts carefully, then bond. Falling rock zone. Keep out of reach of children. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your cancelled check is your receipt. Check paper path. Place stamp here.Avoid contact with eyes and skin and avoid inhaling fumes. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Possible penalties for early withdrawal. Sign here without admitting guilt. No solicitors. Price slightly higher east of Alaska. Storage temperature: -30 C (-22 F) to 40 C (104 F). Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. No purchase necessary. Limited time offer, call now to ensure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. Extinguish all pilot lights. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only with proper ventilation. Replace with same type only. Accessories sold separately. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. Hard hat area. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction by mechanical or electronic means, including photocopying, is strictly prohibited. Adults 18 and over only. Detach and keep for your reference. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. Demo package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before deciding. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the TradeMarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. This supersedes all previous notices. Tag not to be removed under penalty of law. Subject to CARB approval. Do not stamp. Not rated by the Motion Picture Association of America. Call for nutritional information. Printed on recycled paper. Prizes are not redeemable for cash equivalent. To be used as a supplementary restraint system only. Some dripping may occur. Always fasten your safety belt. Subject to change without notice. Do not staple or paper clip. Do not X-ray. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Magnetic media, non-returnable if seal is broken. Formatted to fit your screen. Prolong exposure to vapors has caused cancer in laboratory animals. Not the Beatles. Add toner. Road construction ahead. Open other end. Dealer participation may affect final price. May not be present in all tap water. Park at your own risk. Employees and their families and friends are not eligible. See Uniform Code of Military Justice. Approved for veterans. * - Indicates a low-fat item. Tax, tag, and title not included in advertised price. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Avoid spraying into eyes. An 18% gratuity will be added for parties of 8 or more. Restaurant package, not for resale. For qualified buyers. Call toll free before digging. Unit not labeled for individual sale. The following information is meant for general educational purposes only. Contents under pressure. Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. All passengers must be behind the white line while bus is in motion. Package sold by weight, not volume. Your mileage may vary. No shirt, no shoes, no service. No smoking, food, or drink. This article does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my family, my roommate, my friends, or my cat. Don't quote me on that. Don't quote me on anything. You may distribute this article freely but you may not make a profit from it. Do not use near open flame. Management not responsible for loss or theft. Maximum speeding fine unless you are Dannible: $350. Terms are subject to change without notice. Illustrations are slightly enlarged to show detail. We have kosher and non-kosher foods. Do not remove this disclaimer under penalty of law. Hand wash only, tumble dry on low heat. Do not bend, fold, mutilate, or spindle. No substitutions allowed. For a limited time only. This article is void where prohibited, taxed, or otherwise restricted. Caveat emptor. All taxes become liability of the winner. Handicapped parking - tow zone. Product is provided "as is" without any warranties. User assumes full responsibility. An equal opportunity employer. We accept food stamps. Quantities are limited while supplies last. If any defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized service center. Use at your own risk. Parental advisory - explicit lyrics. Text may contain explicit materials some readers may find objectionable, parental guidance is advised. Keep away from sunlight. You must be 54" tall to ride this ride. Disconnect spark plug wire before servicing. Keep away from pets and small children. Limit one per family, please. No money down. You need not be present to win. Do not try this at home. Instructions are included. Action figures sold separately. No preservatives added. Shown with optional equipment. Product does not really fly. Coated with food-grade vegetable, beeswax, and/or shellac-based wax or resin to maintain freshness. This product contains olestra. Safety goggles required during use. For demonstration purposes only. Sealed with printed foil for your protection, do not use if safety seal is broken. Not liable for damages arising from use or misuse. For external use only. If rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops, discontinue use. WARNING: may cause cirrhosis of the liver, inflammation of the brain, heart damage, pancreatic damage, kidney damage, spleen implosion or explosion, thyroid combustion, severe nasal hair growth, blindness, eruptia, pregnancy, infertility, fecal incontinence, impotence, loss of genitalia and/or hermaphroditism, hair loss skin blemishes, bone deformity, throat cancer, ulcers, hangnails, bladder leakage, sores, scabs, elephantiasis, hepatitis, conjunctivitis, gingivitis, appendicitis, bronchitis, and/or athlete's foot. Avoid extreme temperatures and store in a cool dry place. Do not puncture, incinerate, or store above 120 degrees Fahrenheit / 49 degrees Celsius. Do not place near a flammable or magnetic source. Your email session may be monitored at the University's discretion. Smoking this article could be hazardous to your health. The best safeguard, second only to abstinence is the use of a condom. No salt, MSG, artificial color or flavoring added. Use type GR927 battery. WARNING: pregnant women, the elderly, Dru and children should avoid this product. Discontinue product use if any of the following occurs: itching, vertigo, dizziness, tingling in extremities, loss of balance or coordination, slurred speech, temporary blindness, profuse sweating, or heart palpitations. May stick to certain types of skin. Contains no fruit juice. Push down, then twist. Dry clean only. UL listed. Articles are ribbed for your pleasure. Offer valid only at participating sites. Allow four to six weeks for delivery. Must be 18 to use. Warrenty does not cover misuse, accident, extraterrestrial impact, lightning, floods, tornadoes, solar flares, tsunami, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, supernovas, hurricanes, other Acts of God, neglect, damage from improper or unauthorized use, incorrect line voltage and/or frequency, broken antenna or marred cabinet, missing or altered serial numbers,chemical reactions, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom shock waves, customer adjustments that are not covered in this list, and incidents owing to an airplane crash, Divine Intervention, extraterrestrial intervention, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, explosive decompression, hard vacuum, dropping the item, falling rocks, falling anything, falling on rocks, falling on anything, caustic chemicals, napalm, leaky roofs, broken glass, magnetic fields, laser or other energy weapons, sub-atomic particle bombardment, emissions of x-rays, microwave, ultraviolet, cosmic, and/or gamma rays, mud slides, forest fires, or projectiles (which may include, but are not limited to, arrows, bombs, artillery shells, missiles, bullets, snowballs, hand grenades, buckshot, BBs, flares, shrapnel, liquid-filled balloons, torpedoes, knives, stones, spears, swords, maces, pikes, clubs, morningstars, etc.). Other restrictions may apply. These web site links are listed as a convenience to our visitors. If you use these links, we take no responsibility and give no guarantees, warranties or representations, implied or otherwise, for the content or accuracy of these third-party sites. Caution: The contents of this bottle should not be fed to fish. Do not use while sleeping. Do not use in shower. Warning: This product can burn eyes. Caution: Hot beverages are hot! For external use only! Warning: May contain small parts. Do not use orally. Please keep out of children. Do not recharge, put in backwards, or use. Warning: Do not use on eyes. Do not look into laser with remaining eye. Do not use for drying pets. Do not use as ear plugs. Please store in the cold section of the refrigerator. Warning: knives are sharp. Not for weight control. Twist top off with hands. Throw top away. Do not put top in mouth. Theft of this container is a crime. Do not use intimately. Warning: has been found to cause cancer in laboratory mice. Fragile. Do not drop. Cannot be made non-poisonous. Caution: Remove infant before folding for storage. Excessive dust may be irritating to shin and eyes. Look before driving. Do not iron clothes on body. Do not drive car or operate machinery. For indoor or outdoor use only. Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly. This door is alarmed from 7:00pm - 7:00am. Beware! To touch these wires is instant death. Anyone found doing so will be prosecuted. Warning: do not use if you have prostate problems. Product will be hot after heating. Do not turn upside down. Do not light in face. Do not expose to flame. Choking hazard: This toy is a small ball. Not for human consumption. May be harmful if swallowed. Using Ingenio cookware to destroy your old pots may void your warranty. Do not attempt to stop the blade with your hand. Do not dangle the mouse by its cable or throw the mouse at co-workers. Warning: May contain nuts. Do not eat. Access hole only -- not intended for use in lifting box. Warning: May cause drowsiness. Warning: Misuse may cause injury or death. Do not use orally after using rectally. Turn off motor before using this product. Not to be used as a personal flotation device. Do not put in mouth. Please remove before driving. Remove plastic before eating. Not dishwasher safe. For lifting purposes only. Do not put lit candles on phone. Warning! This is not underwear! Do not attempt to put in pants. Do not use house paint on face. Do not drive cars in ocean. Always drive on roads - Not on people. For a limited time only. No stopping or standing. Do not sit under coconut trees. These rows reserved for parents with children. All cups leaving this store, rather full or empty, must be paid for. Malfunction: Insufficient water. Prescriptions cannot be filled by phone. You could be a winner! No purchase necessary. Details are inside. Fits one head. Payment is due by the due date. Take care: new non-slip surface. In case of flood, proceed uphill. In case of a flash flood, proceed uphill quickly. 100% pure yarn. Remove the plastic wrapper. Open packet. Eat the contents. Remove wrapper, open mouth, insert muffin, eat. Use like regular soap. Federal law prohibits the smoking of tampons in the lavatory. Instructions: usage known. Serving suggestion: Defrost. Simply pour the biscuits into a bowl and allow the cat to eat when it wants. In order to get out of car, open door, get out, lock doors, and then close doors. Please include the proper portion of your bill. Optional modem required. Actual product may not match expectations. Not valid with other offers. Copies freely and wantonly distributed over the internet and behind your back.

 

Some exclusions may apply and the omnipresent "your results may vary".[/font]

 

 

[ivan]

very nice bill. so, senor winter, i respect both of ya'lls opinions a good deal - what say ye? personaly, as a believer in several ufo-based conspiracy theories, i worry not for the future - we will all Be on the Mother-Ship Very fucking sooN!

[Couloir]

Good for Coburn. I support Wilderness and the concept of Wilderness Areas, but until road repair/access issues are resolved the 'Wilderness' designation gives environmental extremists too much leverage to limit reasonable access for hikers, climbers, and mountain bikes. I will use the link to express my sentiments and support of Coburn's intransigence.

 

I still haven't forgotten how "Wilderness Watch" tried to force the USFS to severely limit climber access on the south side of Hood using an extreme interpretation of language in The Wilderness Act just a few years ago.

You do have a good point about the roads FW. I just think that the amount of work, study and bi-partisan approach this legislation underwent, it deserves passage. Opposing this bill does nothing for either cause.

[mattp]

I believe part of the drive for Wilderness Area designation stems from the fact that the Roadless Area Rule adopted by the Forest Service in 2001 has been under steady attack from the Bush Administration and many conservation groups believe that their only solid option for preserving wild lands and large areas of habitat is through Wilderness Area designation.

[KingsMM]

"...if people in general could be got into the woods, even for once, to hear the trees speak for themselves, all difficulties in the way of forest preservation would vanish." - John Muir

[JosephH]

If they would put the last few strands of old growth in the PNW out of rotation

 

Old growth isn't 'rotated' it's destroyed and can never be replaced. Ever look down during a flight over Oregon when headed out of state? That's not the world's largest par 4 out there, that's a hundred years of disasterous and unbridled policy based solely to enhance resource extraction. They would have been far better off stripping 3/4's of the state bare and leaving 1/4 roadless and uncut.

 

Pure 'Wilderness' by definition is a roadless area - the idea that roads need to be repaired or created for access is bullshit. It's just cover to set and maintain precedents for commercial access to wilderness areas.

 

Bill's point about a percentage being second and third growth is correct, but that doesn't make it a 'faux' wilderness - none of them at this point are pure and we have to protect what we can before they're further degraded. Bush just declared a broad swath of the pacific a sanctuary despite the fact that this vast chain of islands and atolls is essentially a large garbage rake.

 

At what point do you folks get that it isn't all about you and your particular playtimes or commercial endeavors - that it's simply about preserving some shred of what precious little remains of our wilderness habitats as they are, and not on terms dictated by human [ab]use.

[Winter]

If folks have concerns about access to particular areas that will be impacted by the Wilderness Bill, let's talk about it. All I've heard so far is a general paranoia about government regulation, which is no reason to reject a bill that resulted from years of collaboration and bi-partisan compromise. The access issues have been heavily negotiated with user groups during the process, which is why the bill includes some land as a National Rec Area and not Wilderness.

 

The Wilderness Bill also offers permanent protection for the Tilly Jane area and the Crystal Springs watershed that serves 1/4 of Hood River County. The County backs the bill as do a large majority of the people that live there. The alternative may be a large ski area, 450 units of hotels and codos, golf courses and strip malls on the North Side of Mt. Hood.

[rbw1966]

How will passage of this bill affect the Cloud Cap Road? Cooper Spur ski area?

[Fairweather]

How will passage of this bill affect the Cloud Cap Road?

 

...Or repairs to it in the event of a washout. This particular bill is not a big deal, but I think the "big picture" is. By drawing a line in the sand here, those of us who subscribe to the Ira Spring doctrine (of inclusion and building a love of the outdoors in/for future generations) can deny certain extreme environmental interests from gaining yet more leverage with which to lock us out.

 

BTW: The link to Senator Coburn was very helpful...

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for standing up to so-called environmental interests regarding the proposed Mount Hood Wilderness extension. As an avid hiker, skier, and mountain climber, I am saddened to see access to our wilderness areas and national parks being methodically stripped away by environmental interests (and their lawyers) who want to turn these places into nothing more than museums--and then lock all the doors. They regularly stand in the way of simple road repairs, or stand by a doctrine of "social standard" when determining who and how many are allowed into "their" preserve. I know Bush supports this bill--and I support Bush--but he is wrong on this. Thank you for being the lone voice of reason regarding this bill.

 

Brian XXXXXX

Fircrest, Wa

Edited March 2, 2008 by Fairweather

[JosephH]

Again, it isn't about human [ab]use - if you can't reach part of a 'wilderness' without a road or a motor you don't have what it takes to be in that part of the wilderness. Maybe if you drop the Judeo-Christian 'god-put-it-all-here-for-me-to-use' claptrap you'd be able to see from a less painfully self-absorbed perspective.

 

Hell, you might as well whine that the Palmer lift doesn't go to the top of Mt. Hood while you're at it - how dare they stand by a doctrine of social standard" when determining who and how many are allowed to stand on top of "their" mountain. And of course by your logic a via ferrata up the Nose - the nerve - how dare they attempt to keep it ferrataless. Clearly you're all big ADA supporters.

[Fairweather]

Maybe if you drop the Judeo-Christian 'god-put-it-all-here-for-me-to-use' claptrap you'd be able to see from a less painfully self-absorbed perspective.

You don't know me. Even with your broad brush...you missed.

 

Hell, you might as well whine that the Palmer lift doesn't go to the top of Mt. Hood while you're at it - how dare they stand by a doctrine of social standard" when determining who and how many are allowed to stand on top of "their" mountain.

 

Only the top portion of the south side (along with most of the north) is encompassed within the current wilderness area. The Palmer snowfield/lift is not. Are you saying that the 25 climber-per-day Mount Hood limit proposal was a good idea? Or are you just angry because there are actually people who disagree with you?

Edited March 2, 2008 by Fairweather

[mattp]

I'd be interested to know what this proposal might really mean to recreational users or potential recreational users and to commercial interests and in particular those I see as particularly destructive like mining and logging. Are the areas to be added to the wilderness REALLY likely to be logged? If they are declared wilderness, will there be a different management approach when it comes to non-motorized recreation?

 

I think you're a little overstated, Joseph, if you are suggesting that these areas must be declared wilderness or they are going to have chairlifts, roads, and new clearcuts.

[Winter]

Both the Cloud Cap Road and the Cooper Spur Ski Area have intentionally been left outside the boundaries of the proposed Wilderness and would not be affected.

 

Seems to me like having outside interests drawing arbitrary lines in the sand without regard to what local people want for their communities is a pretty extreme position. The fact is that this bill is heavily supported by the rural communities of Mt. Hood - hence the support of Oregon's Republican politicians. Why should those communities be held hostage by the political agendas of outside interests?

 

FW, your position conflicts with what I thought you would stand for - bi-partisan collaboration, support for rural communities, and innovative problem solving. You would throw that all away simply because you do not like wilderness? I think that's an extremist's approach.

 

MattP - Mt. Hood Meadows proposed a large-scale expansion of the Cooper Spur Ski Area in the Tilly Jane area on the North Side of Mt. Hood. The Wilderness Bill would protect that area from extensive commercial development and results in part from years of mediation between Mt. Hood Meadows and the people that live in the Upper Hood River Valley.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2008 by Winter

[billcoe]

 

At what point do you folks get that it isn't all about you and your particular playtimes or commercial endeavors - that it's simply about preserving some shred of what precious little remains of our wilderness habitats as they are, and not on terms dictated by human [ab]use.

 

What wilderness? What road less area? What are you talking about? Head up that way sometime and there are roads everywhere. You think that the lumber to make your handrail, porch, doors and house was dropped in on your lawn by the wood fairy?

 

90 percent of the remaining old growth was locked up in the last Rare 2 bill back in the late 70's which I supported. If there was any remaining oldgrowth stands left you'd have my support.

 

This one was created by people with nothing better to do with their time and IMO is bullshit who's prime result being that it will only add restrictions and bureaucratic layers that are not needed.

[ivan]

i entered into this conversation being pretty nuetral - i think chris' pts are strongest so far - having the current level of access to the n side preserved/maintained and making it so the rest will stay as is forever w/ no more development seems to me a no-shit good idea.

[Fairweather]

Both the Cloud Cap Road and the Cooper Spur Ski Area have intentionally been left outside the boundaries of the proposed Wilderness and would not be affected.

 

 

 

With regard to the road: Is this yet another "narrow road corridor" tactic (ala Dosewallips or Stehekin River) that will effectively prohibit future repair by preventing even the most minor roadbed relocation project when the inevitable washouts occur? I believe ongoing tactics employed by enviro-lawsuit inc in this regard are the reason why you are meeting with skepticism from those who would normally support this proposal.

 

I am unable to locate a detailed map of the proposed additions online. Any links?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Fairweather

[JosephH]

Hell, you might as well whine that the Palmer lift doesn't go to the top of Mt. Hood while you're at it - how dare they stand by a doctrine of social standard" when determining who and how many are allowed to stand on top of "their" mountain.

 

Only the top portion of the south side (along with most of the north) is encompassed within the current wilderness area. The Palmer snowfield/lift is not. Are you saying that the 25 climber-per-day Mount Hood limit proposal was a good idea? Or are you just angry because there are actually people who disagree with you?

 

No, I'm saying you folks are using the same logic someone disabled could use within the context of the ADA to demand the Palmer Lift be extended to the top of the mountain. Your requirement and demand for road creation and repair within wilderness areas is not a shred different.

[Fairweather]

Road creation?? Huh? In any event, were supporters of ADA so inclined, I would oppose their efforts. Maybe the tactical use of ADA requirements would be effective in stopping some of the environmental extremism and twisting of TWA that runs rampant these days.