Denali Expedition 2008 - Looking for 10-12 member

[Hugh Conway]

I'd say all athiests are pretty much in agreement when it comes to the supernatural phenomena that religion concerns itself with, but it's no surprise that this does not translate into anything resembling unanimity on political issues that are completely unrelated to such questions, or at best only tangentially related to them.

 

Yeah, and all the god freaks are pretty much the same because they say "He's there"

 

Oh - can someone explain to me why non-proselytzing religions were used as a counterexample? Hindus and Jews aren't going to spread the gospel on the mountain because they, as a rule, don't try and convert others.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

It's a weird deal, and personally I think that if I got it wrong and the Jesus/God thing IS real, that people who did right by their fellow humans while alive will get in past them Pearly Gates, 'cuz from what I know about JC he didn't have too big an ego about his gig. He'd forgive.

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much, because from what I hear, Heaven is a place...a place where nothing ever happens.

[chucK]

Speaking a Christopher Hitchens, here's a pretty good quote,apropos to some of this thread, today in Slate

 

Isn't it amazing how self-pitying and self-aggrandizing the religious freaks in this country are? It's not enough that they can make straight-faced professions of "faith" at election times and impose their language on everything from the Pledge of Allegiance to the currency. It's not enough that they can claim tax exemption and even subsidy for anything "faith-based." It's that when they are even slightly criticized for their absurd opinions, they can squeal as if being martyred and act as if they are truly being persecuted.

[sirwoofalot]

And why shouldn't churches be able tell people how they think they should vote? Moveon.org does it! Hillary Clinton and Mike Huckabee have been doing it multiple times a day for the last several months!

 

MoveOn is a Political Action Committees and thus donations are not tax deductible. Churches are tax except and donations a tax deductible. If a church starts telling it's congregation how to vote then they should lose their tax exempt status and donations should not be tax deductible.

 

Agreed. IRS has been going after a couple such churches the last year or so. It's been in the papers.

 

correction, ACLU using the IRS to go after the Christian God.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

The New Testament according to Tvash:

 

The Jews: "Life under the Romans sucks."

 

Jesus "I'm Love!"

 

The Jews "WTF?"

 

Jesus "I'm a Sword!"

 

The Jews "Thats better, MF"

 

Jesus "Free eats!"

 

The Jews "Fuck ya"

 

The Romans "Fuck this. Tack 'im up"

 

Jesus "WTF?"

 

The Jews "Jesus who?"

 

The Apostles "Yeah, so and so said he saw 'im, too!"

 

Matthew "Freakin' Night of the Living Dead, bitches!"

 

Mary Magdelene "You guy's are trippin"

 

The New Christians "STFU, slut"

 

Paul "Lets kick some ass!"

 

The New Christians "Fuck ya. Christ is King, MF. Who's is charge of fund raising?"

Edited December 18, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

And why shouldn't churches be able tell people how they think they should vote? Moveon.org does it! Hillary Clinton and Mike Huckabee have been doing it multiple times a day for the last several months!

 

MoveOn is a Political Action Committees and thus donations are not tax deductible. Churches are tax except and donations a tax deductible. If a church starts telling it's congregation how to vote then they should lose their tax exempt status and donations should not be tax deductible.

 

Agreed. IRS has been going after a couple such churches the last year or so. It's been in the papers.

 

correction, ACLU using the IRS to go after the Christian God.

 

Yeah, because we all know the ACLU secretly runs things

 

I believe the IRS just might have access to it's own attorneys. Just a guess.

[sirwoofalot]

And why shouldn't churches be able tell people how they think they should vote? Moveon.org does it! Hillary Clinton and Mike Huckabee have been doing it multiple times a day for the last several months!

 

MoveOn is a Political Action Committees and thus donations are not tax deductible. Churches are tax except and donations a tax deductible. If a church starts telling it's congregation how to vote then they should lose their tax exempt status and donations should not be tax deductible.

 

Agreed. IRS has been going after a couple such churches the last year or so. It's been in the papers.

 

correction, ACLU using the IRS to go after the Christian God.

 

Yeah, because we all know the ACLU secretly runs things

 

I believe the IRS just might have access to it's own attorneys. Just a guess.

 

who are being lead by the ACLU, and card carring members of the ACLU.

 

[Fairweather]

SO you have no problem with chuches telling their members how to vote?

Many churches support Democratic candidates - including Catholics. I have no problem whatsoever, It's still a matter of choice.

Or proclamations that the United States is chosen by god? Or the succcessful efforts of those with some other agenda to manipulate voters over issues such as abortion?

Manifest destiny? I've never heard of mainstream Christian churches preaching this. Please elaborate. Abortion?? I think Democrats and liberals in general use the issue at least as effectively as Republicans or Christians.

My father in law, a democrat all his life, voted for Bush because his pastor told him that Gore was "pro abortion."

Is this any different than tactics employed by ACORN, MoveOn, Emily's List, CNN, etc? Ultimately, the vote remains a choice. Are you suggesting that politicking in these arenas be banned?

George Bush justified his war in Iraq with references to religions crusade, and you're telling me the Athiests are a threat?

Vague, at best. Although his one time (?) use of the word "crusade" was certainly clumsy. Also, I didn't say atheists were a threat. Just preachy, vitriolic (you seemed to agree) and generally annoying.

[No. 13 Baby]

who are being lead by the ACLU, and card carring members of the ACLU.

 

Edited December 18, 2007 by No. 13 Baby

[kevbone]

Please remove this thread from CC.god! Thank you!

[wfinley]

who are being lead by the ACLU, and card carring members of the ACLU.

 

Read before you rant: http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/26526res20060824.html

 

The following selected recent cases (mostly since 1995) show that the ACLU defends the rights of those who identify themselves as Christians (Part I) and as well as those who have other beliefs (Part II).

http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/religion/rf_cases_20071115.pdf

[Seahawks]

The ACLU was founded in the 1920s by Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman, described as a "progressive" and "the perfect feminist."

 

 

Earl Browder was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1944. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later that year, Browder was chosen as its president. Browder proudly proclaimed that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. To deny the ACLU's founding was attached at the hip to communist organizations is to deny what can easily be proven as truth.

 

[wfinley]

Seahawks - how do explain their list of cases defending Christian rights? Do they take these cases to help with the vast conspiracy cover-up?

[sirwoofalot]

Wanna impress me that you have the "righteous path" LIVE IT! Shut the hell up and live youre path, be an example as a human being. That is what counts...

 

Right on!

I think you will find most Christians in America today will agree with you.

[Seahawks]

Seahawks - how do explain their list of cases defending Christian rights? Do they take these cases to help with the vast conspiracy cover-up?

 

ACLU has sued to;

Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

Remove all military chaplains.

Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

Remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance

Deny federal funding for Boy Scouts until they admit gays and atheists

[sirwoofalot]

PS.

I think that is what VH wants to do, but wants to do it with others how consider themselfs as Christians, or more importantly followers of Jesus.

[tvashtarkatena]

who are being lead by the ACLU, and card carring members of the ACLU.

 

Sorry to dissappoint you, but the ACLU's charter does not include prosecuting tax evation cases. The IRS needs no help with that.

 

If, in fact, the ACLU is involved in any way in any of the GENERAL REFERENCES you've posted (I've heard a million of these conspiracy references, but I'm still waiting for a critic such as yourself to come up with even a single specific case where their conspiracies are even remotely supported by events), it would have to have something to do with a constitutional issue, because that's all the ACLU does. Now, you may object to the ACLU's support of the establishment clause in the U.S. Constitution. Fair enough, many do. But don't waste your time screaming about the ACLU. Lobby your congressman to have that clause removed.

 

Good luck with that.

Edited December 18, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[minx]

Seahawks - how do explain their list of cases defending Christian rights? Do they take these cases to help with the vast conspiracy cover-up?

 

ACLU has sued to;

Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

Remove all military chaplains.

Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

Remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance

Deny federal funding for Boy Scouts until they admit gays and atheists

 

i only have a problem with two of those. if i'm not mistaken the military offers religious services to a wide range of religions so i'm ok w/that.

 

the boy scouts are a private organization right? no problem w/them having their own standards. i did have my son join the scouts b/c of their beliefs. they make a choice. i made a choice. nothing wrong w/that.

[wfinley]

ACLU has sued to;

Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

Remove all military chaplains.

Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

Remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance

Deny federal funding for Boy Scouts until they admit gays and atheists

 

Please see the tin foil hat post above.

[sirwoofalot]

Seahawks - how do explain their list of cases defending Christian rights? Do they take these cases to help with the vast conspiracy cover-up?

 

ACLU has sued to;

Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

Remove all military chaplains.

Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

Remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance

Deny federal funding for Boy Scouts until they admit gays and atheists

 

I am not so sure on of the Boy Scout issues.

 

I think Boy Scouts will not admit gays leaders.

 

As for Atheist, part of the Boy Scout law is you can not be an atheist, you must believe in God. It does not say which God, but just God. You choose your god, but that is the 12th point of the Scout law.

[carolyn]

Okay, I got my question answered regarding what kind of "help" the mission plans to offer. Yes, I looked at the website. I figured VH wouldnt bother coming back to defend, explain, or answer any questions (which I would understand).

 

2007 Pre-Trip Report

Mission: Denali begins with the Climbing For Christ team assembling this week in Anchorage for final preparations before heading to Talkeetna and our flight onto the mountain on Sunday, May 13. Ten members – NAMES DELETED BY CAROLYN, and I – will share the love and truth of Christ with the estimated 1,200 climbers expected to be on the West Buttress route. It's not a wilderness experience, but it is a mission trip. The team will promote encounters with the Divine, distribute Bibles, and hold public worship services on this mountain now festooned with Budhist prayer flags within a National Park. More than 40 countries will likely be represented on the mountain.

 

 

Evangelic Expeditions/Mission Vision

The bumper sticker speaks volumes: "Talkeetna: A Quaint Drinking Town With A Climbing Problem." The local church in Talkeetna, Alaska – the jumping off point for climbers entering the amazing Alaska Range – has a small, fertile mission field. For starters, there are the locals (population 450), and the above-mentioned flow of alcohol. Then there are the climbers, who come from all parts of the world, most to attempt Denali (or Mount McKinley, the highest mountain in North America). The Talkeetna Cemetery with its Mount McKinley Climbers’ Memorial isn’t the only place full of dead people. The landing strips, base camps and summits of the Alaskan ranges are loaded with the climbing dead; lost souls that need to hear the life-saving Word of God, Creator of the mountains and Father of the Word made flesh.

 

 

I see a lot of other humanitarian efforts done by the organization, some not including preaching. I think that is great. I dont hold anything against a group of people believing in one religion or another heading out to do something they love, being kind towards those they meet and having their own "worship". I do not know this group OR how much they push discussions, bibles, etc. I DO know when I am approached I walk away. I also know I would not appreciate someone pushing the bible on me while climbing (or even walking down the street).

 

Not all christians are pushy. But when there is judgement towards others who believe in something else, or a higher than thou attitude because 'they believe' and 'others dont' it makes me kind of sick. I guess I kind of got that from a sentence in one of the above quotes regarding buddhist flags in a National Park. Kind of got the sense the organization feels it is wrong. Then the line about how there are so many "dead" climbers (not literally) all around and on the mountain ranges. Just makes it sound as if you do not believe the same thing the organization does, then you are not worthy, alive, or as good.

 

ALright. I will stop. Like I said, my question was answered.

[wfinley]

the boy scouts are a private organization right? no problem w/them having their own standards. i did have my son join the scouts b/c of their beliefs. they make a choice. i made a choice. nothing wrong w/that.

 

They sued to stop federal funding to the boy scouts.

[minx]

OOPS! reading comprehension problem. yeah screw the boyscouts.

[wfinley]

What part of the West Butt is "festooned with Budhist [sic] prayer flags"?

[Seahawks]

the boy scouts are a private organization right? no problem w/them having their own standards. i did have my son join the scouts b/c of their beliefs. they make a choice. i made a choice. nothing wrong w/that.

 

They sued to stop federal funding to the boy scouts.

 

Thats why I no longer bank with Bank of America.