Ketosis Breath

[goldenchild]

tvash,

the electrolyte pills. What are these things? And does anyone in Vancouver reading this know where to get them?

I've never heard of such pills but am interested

[ClimbingPanther]

electrolyte pills could be code for 'shrooms...

I'd bet dehydrated mushrooms would be a decent source of potassium for those crampy times. Probably way cheaper than some specialized overpriced pills. I plan on giving it a shot sometime 'cause I get cramps worse than anyone I know. Usually after a couple hours of sustained quad-killing, i.e. Leutholds.

[catbirdseat]

I can vouch for the effectiveness of Tvash's electrolyte pills. I was cramping up horribly at our camp at Colchuck Lake. After taking two pills I was fine in 20 minutes.

[tvashtarkatena]

tvash,

the electrolyte pills. What are these things? And does anyone in Vancouver reading this know where to get them?

I've never heard of such pills but am interested

 

You can purchase them online or at bike stores. Ecaps and Endurolytes are two brands. They are electrolytes balanced for humans. Running out of electrolytes is the most common problem endurance athletes encounter. This condition can manifest itself as cramping, fatigue, clumsiness, fuzzy thinking, thirst (common) and hunger. There are no negative side affects; this is stuff your body needs to function.

 

Anecdote: when I first started training for AR, I ran a 25 mile trail with about 11,500' of gain. I didn't use electrolyte pills. About 15 minutes after I finished, I experience massive cramping in my legs and back (from using trek poles). Not fun.

 

I started using electrolyte pills. Six weeks later I ran an 80 mile race (including mtn. biking and white water) with 16,000' of gain. 25 hours of continuous motion. Not one cramp.

Edited December 13, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[builder206]

You can purchase them online or at bike stores. Ecaps and Endurolytes are two brands. They are electrolytes balanced for humans.

 

Thanks for the emphasis. Last time I mistakenly got hamster electrolytes. They didn’t do a thing. At least with horse electrolytes you know something’s wrong because you need help carrying the tablet.

[tvashtarkatena]

As opposed to old style salt pills, which you can also purchase, which are not balanced for humans.

[G-spotter]

One more thing that hasn't been mentioned. Hypoglycemic people tend to get a little 'scratchy', or bitchy, as we say in the AR biz. Why put your partner through that?

 

You guys must be hypoglycemic all the time then!!

[tvashtarkatena]

Electrolyte pills will get rid of those exclamation points for ya.

[G-spotter]

TURN YOUR . INTO A ! WITH V|AGRA C|AL|S LEV|TRA

[tvashtarkatena]

<+):=@

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[ClimbingPanther]

8=====D O

8=====DO

8=====O

8====O

8===O

8==O

8=O

8O

8=O

8O

8=O

8O

8=O

8O

8=O

8O

8=O

[goldenchild]

what's AR?

[tvashtarkatena]

Adventure racing.

[sirwoofalot]

So, Tav of Sun, can you explain why sometimes I get and incredible craving for Bacon Cheese Burgers?

 

It usually comes about 90 min. of sustained out put.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Well, SWA, studies of top endurance athletes have shown that bacon cheese burger cravings are really just a masked homoestatic response to dangerously low blood alcohol. This condition can lead to a thickening of the blood, feelings of general dissatisfaction, poor humor, timidness among members of the opposite sex, and excessive longevity. It can become dangerous, should your partner take extreme exception to your incessant whining. By all means, have the bacon cheese burger, but don't kid yourself that you've addressed the root cause of your condition; you need to elevate your blood alcohol level as soon after cravings begin as possible.

Edited December 14, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[jclements]

I started using electrolyte pills. Six weeks later I ran an 80 mile race (including mtn. biking and white water) with 16,000' of gain. 25 hours of continuous motion. Not one cramp.

 

I could have used something like this on a massive scree slog down in the Sierras back in Oct. I munched on Clif Bloks but clearly not enough- cramping that demanded stopping and eating for a while.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm not hard enough when I'm munching all kinds of gels and snacks and hydrating during a climb and a partner is barely taking anything in and gets kind of sullen towards the end of the day...

 

[i_like_sun]

"Sometimes I feel like I'm not hard enough when I'm munching all kinds of gels and snacks and hydrating during a climb and a partner is barely taking anything in and gets kind of sullen towards the end of the day... "

 

 

 

How does eating more make you feel "not hard enough"? Ask any woman, and I'd bet she'd say that a true hard man eats A LOT! C'mon dude, you'll just have bigger and harder muscles than your starving sullen pal.

 

STARVATION IS NOT ATTRACTIVE.

[tvashtarkatena]

I started using electrolyte pills. Six weeks later I ran an 80 mile race (including mtn. biking and white water) with 16,000' of gain. 25 hours of continuous motion. Not one cramp.

 

I could have used something like this on a massive scree slog down in the Sierras back in Oct. I munched on Clif Bloks but clearly not enough- cramping that demanded stopping and eating for a while.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm not hard enough when I'm munching all kinds of gels and snacks and hydrating during a climb and a partner is barely taking anything in and gets kind of sullen towards the end of the day...

 

The true hard men neither eat nor drink. Ever. Many don't sleep, either. If you find yourself eating and drinking during anything less than a 36 hour continuous push, you might think about taking up scuba diving.

[Stefan]

I have a 100oz bladder.

 

On single day outings I put in 2 cans of frozen concentrate Apple Juice and then load the rest with water. Total calories = 1400. Higher than any gatorade or cytomax combo I have found. In addition, two frozen concentrates are equal to $1.76 (Winco) and I have found that is cheaper than gatorade or cytomax. In addition, the only ingredient is: concentrated apple juice: No chemicals whatsoever.

 

Cheaper. More calories. No chemicals.

[tvashtarkatena]

That's over six pounds of water to be lugging around!

[i_like_sun]

Doesn't that give you the shits?

[ashw_justin]

Its true that fats have WAY more energy than carbs, but lipids cannot enter glycolosis, thus you are creating carbohydrates FROM your muscles. Think about this seriously for a second, carbs are by far the preferred energy source for your cells.

While it's true that lipids do not enter into glycolysis, that's irrelevant. Aerobic energy is generated from Acetyl-CoA, which is produced just as readily from fats as from sugars. Second, Acetyl-CoA produced from the breakdown of fats can enter gluconeogenesis to produce glucose (say for your brain).

 

Thus there is technically nothing wrong with burning large amounts of fat for energy. It just has to be aerobic (very low intensity), and importantly, it takes a lot more molar equivalents of water to metabolize lipids than it does sugars.

 

Burning protein/amino acids for energy is another story. If you want to avoid this you will have to move way more slowly, eat frequently but not too heavily, and drink a lot more. Easier said than done.

[i_like_sun]

Its true that fats have WAY more energy than carbs, but lipids cannot enter glycolosis, thus you are creating carbohydrates FROM your muscles. Think about this seriously for a second, carbs are by far the preferred energy source for your cells.

While it's true that lipids do not enter into glycolysis, that's irrelevant. Aerobic energy is generated from Acetyl-CoA, which is produced just as readily from fats as from sugars. Second, Acetyl-CoA produced from the breakdown of fats can enter gluconeogenesis to produce glucose (say for your brain).

 

Thus there is technically nothing wrong with burning large amounts of fat for energy. It just has to be aerobic (very low intensity), and importantly, it takes a lot more molar equivalents of water to metabolize lipids than it does sugars.

 

Burning protein/amino acids for energy is another story. If you want to avoid this you will have to move way more slowly, eat frequently but not too heavily, and drink a lot more. Easier said than done.

 

 

This intensity thing is what I was trying to get at. If an athlete is not working out intensely, the stress response required for growth and neural adaptation won't ever be reached! (Don't even get me rolling on the endocrine system's role in this) The so called "fat burning zone" is a bunch of bullshit. In order to get stronger and faster, gain muscle, and lose fat, we need to workout as hard as possible.

 

What you said about Acetyl-CoA being as easily produced from lipids as sugars is right on, I believe the difference is in the speed that this can happen however. Stored carbohydrate enables the generation of very FAST energy via glycolosis, and thus enabling the body to exercise MORE INTENSELY (anaerobic). The greater the intensity, the greater the energy demand, and the greater the calories burned. In order to keep the brain happy and avoid muscle loss, the actual catabolism of your stored fat reserves should happen HOURS after you exercise, not so much during. This is where I was trying to explain how the "fat burning zone" is such a lie. Low intensity exercise (while it is great for recovery and rehab) simply does not elicit the physiological adaption that high intensity exercise does. Sure you are burning mostly fat at low intensities, but your total calories burned are really low. The only time that you should be in this "fat burning zone", is in between exercise sessions.

 

Eat carbs to exercise harder and become harder.

[hafilax]

So where does the Kendal Mint Cake fit in?

Edited December 16, 2007 by hafilax

[Chad_A]

 

This intensity thing is what I was trying to get at. If an athlete is not working out intensely, the stress response required for growth and neural adaptation won't ever be reached! (Don't even get me rolling on the endocrine system's role in this) The so called "fat burning zone" is a bunch of bullshit. In order to get stronger and faster, gain muscle, and lose fat, we need to workout as hard as possible.

 

What you said about Acetyl-CoA being as easily produced from lipids as sugars is right on, I believe the difference is in the speed that this can happen however. Stored carbohydrate enables the generation of very FAST energy via glycolosis, and thus enabling the body to exercise MORE INTENSELY (anaerobic). The greater the intensity, the greater the energy demand, and the greater the calories burned. In order to keep the brain happy and avoid muscle loss, the actual catabolism of your stored fat reserves should happen HOURS after you exercise, not so much during. This is where I was trying to explain how the "fat burning zone" is such a lie. Low intensity exercise (while it is great for recovery and rehab) simply does not elicit the physiological adaption that high intensity exercise does. Sure you are burning mostly fat at low intensities, but your total calories burned are really low. The only time that you should be in this "fat burning zone", is in between exercise sessions.

 

Eat carbs to exercise harder and become harder.

 

I believe that this is an oversimplification. Sure, work out hard, get trained, whatever...but people like me that have fast-twitch muscle tendencies need that long, slow "fat burning zone" training to build the aerobic muscle to burn the fat. I was startled to see my physiology test results...the MD said that I was way too overtrained in the high aerobic/anaerobic, and that I needed to log much more time in the lower HR zone to let my body get good at not running on pure glycogen the whole entire time. Hence, less crashing.

 

Back to the original question, I put a couple of GUs in my left front pocket, a couple of bars that sound good in my right pocket, keep the hydration tube handy (if it's not brutally cold) and pack in a sandwich that sounds good for mid day (unless I'm on a climb that won't allow such a rest).