Dave_Schuldt Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 The NWS no longer shows freezing levels. Forecast for the Central Cascades Tonight: Periods of showers. Low around 29. West southwest wind between 9 and 11 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. Thursday: Periods of showers before 11am, then isolated thunderstorms after 11am. Some of the storms could produce small hail. High near 43. Southwest wind between 6 and 9 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. Thursday Night: Rain showers likely before 11pm, then a chance of snow showers. Some thunder is also possible. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 29. South southwest wind between 3 and 6 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%. Friday: A chance of snow showers before 11am, then a chance of rain showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 47. South southwest wind at 7 mph becoming northwest. Chance of precipitation is 30%. Friday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 30. Northwest wind 7 to 9 mph becoming east southeast. Saturday: A 50 percent chance of rain. Cloudy, with a high near 48. Saturday Night: A 50 percent chance of rain. Cloudy, with a low around 33. Sunday: Periods of rain. Cloudy, with a high near 50. Sunday Night: Showers likely. Cloudy, with a low around 36. Columbus Day: A chance of showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 49. Monday Night: A chance of rain. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 35. Tuesday: Rain likely. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 52. Tuesday Night: Rain likely. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 37. Wednesday: Rain likely. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 50. I call BS on this. Where can I get freezing levesls? Quote
dmuja Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 "Washington Ice" (the book) has this formula but I don't get why this complexity is so necessary. (temperature - 32deg) X 1000) divided by 3.5deg) + current elevation = freezing level Snow levels are from 1-2000 feet lower depending on the intensity of the precip system. example: (54 degrees current temp - 32 degrees = 22deg) X 1000 = 22000) divided by 3.5 = 6286ft) + 400 ft = 6686 ft freezing level and a snow level of aprox 5600 or less ft. Quote
ericb Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Somebody pinch me...Dave just posted something other than a link to crooksandliars.com Quote
dmuja Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 A more current example: At my place the current temp is 48 deg f 48 - 32 = 16 16 x 100 = 16,000 16,000 div by 3.5 = 4571 4571 + my current elevation (400ft) = 4971 ft frz lvl (current) snow level is aprox 4000 ft or less (at my location currently) It should get down to say 44 deg f tonight which should drop the freeze level (at my location) down to around 3829 ft give or take. I always liked this site too---> http://i90.atmos.washington.edu/roadview/i90/ . Quote
AlpineK Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for that link. I'd forgotten about that one. Quote
ken4ord Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Come on cold. I hope it is cold and wintery wonderland this year. I will be back for about 3 month and want to get some ice and snowboarding fixes. Quote
kevino Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Tuesday I ran in a full on blizzard on Lion's Rock. And the next morning the foothills north of Ellensburg were covered in snow. Edited October 4, 2007 by kevino Quote
builder206 Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 The NWS no longer shows freezing levels. 1. The NOAA mountain zone forecast reports "snow level" as x thousands of feet here or there. 'Freezing level' and 'snow level' mean the same thing, the altitude at which precip comes down liquid or frozen. Is that good enough? 2. If you were not on a mountain zone WS page, maybe they didn't post the freezing level just because it's early October and much too early for the general population to care. Anyway, I see right there on the mountain zone pages that they are reporting snow level so your assertion is incorrect. No BS to call on anything but your kneejerk reaction. Quote
AlpineK Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Dave click here It's good to see you thinking about stuff other than crooksandliars Dave. Quote
dberdinka Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) "Washington Ice" (the book) has this formula but I don't get why this complexity is so necessary. (temperature - 32deg) X 1000) divided by 3.5deg) + current elevation = freezing level Dude, I'm sorry but you must be ..oh forget it. All that "complex" formula says is temperatures decrease 3.5 degrees per 1000' of altitude. Rerality can vary considerably from that. Edited October 4, 2007 by dberdinka Quote
G-spotter Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Yeah what you really want to know are the dry and wet adiabatic lapse rate and the mixing rate Quote
philfort Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 1. The NOAA mountain zone forecast reports "snow level" as x thousands of feet here or there. 'Freezing level' and 'snow level' mean the same thing, the altitude at which precip comes down liquid or frozen. Is that good enough? They aren't the same thing. Snow level is usually ~1500ft below freezing level. Snow will continue to fall in above freezing air before it finally turns to rain. Quote
builder206 Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 OK, so for sure on the NOAA page "snow level" means *only* that snow might fall at that elevation, regardless of air temp? Quote
G-spotter Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 Snow can fall at up to +2C and rain can fall at up to -2C. Quote
jmace Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 or you could just look at a local sounding or forcasted one Quote
mccallboater Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 This is easier. Really dry air, say, 15% humidity or so, the lapse rate approaches 5 degrees F per 1000 feet gain. Really wet air, 100% or close to it, the lapse rate approaches 3 degrees F per 1000 feet. That rule of thumb has worked for me. So in the Cascades one could use 3.5 most of the time, right? Here in scenic Idaho, I use 4 or better. Quote
G-spotter Posted October 4, 2007 Posted October 4, 2007 HEY I ALREADY SAID JUST THAT IS THERE AN ECHO IN HERE Quote
philfort Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 OK, so for sure on the NOAA page "snow level" means *only* that snow might fall at that elevation, regardless of air temp? Yes... more relevantly, if you have a 2000ft snow level, the snow will be wet and crappy at 2000ft, and probably at 3000ft too. Snow can fall at up to +2C and rain can fall at up to -2C. I've been rained on when it was -10C. Quote
jmace Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 I've been rained on when it was -10C. Inversion Quote
Billy Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Dave- if you do a point forecast, it won't show freezing levels. Try searching things like these on the Noaa pages: West Slopes of the North Cascades East Slopes of the North Cascades These more generalized forecasts show freezing levels where the point forecasts don't. At least that's what I've found. Quote
Dave_Schuldt Posted October 5, 2007 Author Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) The NWS no longer shows freezing levels. 1. The NOAA mountain zone forecast reports "snow level" as x thousands of feet here or there. 'Freezing level' and 'snow level' mean the same thing, the altitude at which precip comes down liquid or frozen. Is that good enough? 2. If you were not on a mountain zone WS page, maybe they didn't post the freezing level just because it's early October and much too early for the general population to care. Anyway, I see right there on the mountain zone pages that they are reporting snow level so your assertion is incorrect. No BS to call on anything but your kneejerk reaction. I cut and pasted the forecast. Please provide link to forecast w/ freezing levels Edited October 5, 2007 by Dave_Schuldt Quote
AlpineK Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 Dave click here It's good to see you thinking about stuff other than crooksandliars Dave. Dave did you not click on the link I provided you? Quote
Billy Posted October 5, 2007 Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) West Slopes Cascades Edited October 5, 2007 by Billy Quote
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