CraigA Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I was wondering if there are any pros/cons between the BD Camalots and the Metolious cams? I'm going to spend this winter putting together a rack and was wanting some imput on cams. Oh Hell, throw in your two-cents on stoppers/hexes as well. Oh yeh, I'll be using the rack for alpine rock as well as cragging at the local hotspots. Does this require two racks or can you substitute a few pieces and go from cragging to alpine or does one rack fit all (this last one doesn't seem to make sense) or does it? Craig [ 09-29-2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: CraigA ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Don't forget to get some Tri-Cams, they are the shit when nothing else fits. Hey, that rhymes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Tricky Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I have a mix of cams, some BD, some Metolious, some others. They all work just fine, and I like having a variety of kinds since different brands of cam within the same range fit differently and give you a wider variety of pro choices. For example, the metolius cams I've got have a narrower profile, so they fit in places where the equivalent sized BD cam wouldn't. As far as hexes go, don't bother with anything but the three largest or four sizes. Some don't like them at all, but they are cheap, much lighter than the equivalent cam, easy to place and totally bomber. I don't place them as much as I used to since I've collected more cams, but I'll take them along on routes where multiples of 2+ inch gear is handy. If you're just building a rack, a few large hexes will get you up stuff until you can afford some larger cams. As far as stoppers go, again I like having a variety of stuff, as each brand fits a little differently. I have a base set of BD stoppers, with doubles in the some mid-small sizes, and then some other random pieces--a few DMM Wall Nuts, which are great, a few HB offsets, etc. The same rack will never be practical for all climbs. A guidebook, or just looking up and eyeballing the route will give you an idea of what gear to take and what gear to leave behind. On routes that require lots of gear in a given size, just create an appropriate rack by combining you and your partner's gear. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 cams are for aid climbers. I use only hexes and stoppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Craig, Here is the scoop, I've had some of both on my rack for a while now: Metolious- Are lighter (and less expensive) than Camolots, but have less range. I have noticed they tend to "walk" easyier than BD's, they can be sketchy in flaring cracks or pods because the cam lobes don't realy work independently to "fill out" the crack. But, placed right they are great cams, lighter and cheaper then camolots. BD- Bomber. Heavier, but one cam almost fits the size range of two metoloius cams. They are heavier mostly because of the double axle, which makes them able to catch a fall in a passive placement (all lobes are fully open). Will you ever place one pasively? Probably not, but it's good to know it would work if it walked out of place, or something weird. The cam lobes move pretty independently (good for flares), and the single stem allows for better placement in pods or pockets. More expensive and heavier, but you will love every one like a best friend, try not to favor red over green, or pink over blue...because they tend to get jealous if not placed as often as the rest. Stoppers and Hexs- Buy these before you buy cams, ad get out and use them...otherwise you'll mostly place cams because they are quick and easy. It's crucial to get good at using stoppers and hexes up in the mountains, as Robins would put it.."The art of chockcraft." Anyway, that goes without saying. I like the bigger size hexes, specialy for alpine stuff cause they are lighter than cams. It will depend on the route whether you bring both hexs and cams, but hexs are allways good, for belays if nothing else. As far as which brand is best...well thats just splitten hairs, they all seem about the same to me. I like BD and Wild Country Rocks the best. Unless your going to Yosemite...then HB offsets all the way. Good luck have fun. Hope all that lingo made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrogers Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Craig- My experience has been that Metolious cams are much better in the smaller sizes- under 1/2" (either TCU or FCU) than the Camlots of the same size. I bought the .2, .3 and .4 and have had a lot of trouble with the .2 and .3 getting stuck- even without falling on them. They are harder to place in than the Metolious TCU's and are more expensive. Get the Metolious cams for the smaller sizes. I was lucky enough to prodeal BD cams from the .5 to the 3", so that's what I started with. From using using partner's racks- I don't like the bigger Metolious cams (over 2")- as they tend to walk and just don't feel as solid as BD's in comparble sizes. They are lighter and cheaper, but I'll suffer the weight for that "dry and secure" feeling. I sold all my hexes- and do regret it. They do work better in some places (like the Tieton) and are much lighter for alpine stuff. Whatever you do, don't buy Clog cams. I was suckered by the price and have either sold them or given them away. That's my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I'd havta disagree with Mr. Rogers, tcu's suck...the new BD small cams rule, but aliens are better. I like the big metolious because they are way lighter to carry to anything but a roadside crag. Pick em up together and you'll see. In the end any cam is a good one when your gripped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Eh, Clog cams aren't that bad. Granted, the placement of the sling is a bit annoying (it lies right where your thumb wants to go), but they are decent for my purposes. Maybe I just don't climb hard enough... oh, and thanks for the #4, Fred, it was just the piece I needed while climbing at Smith last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbconlin Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I like medium to big Camalots and small to medium Metolius FOUR CAM UNITS (aka Power Cams). TCUs seem to get f***'d up after a few years and don't retract very smoothly. For small pieces (i.e. where a TCU is appropriate), Aliens are definitley a better piece than the comparable Metolius. Also, the offset Aliens look pretty sweet but I don't own any, nor have I ever placed one. I agree that you should definitly learn the art of chockcraft before getting too many cams. When I first started leading trad, I had a set of BD nuts and a set of hexes. That's it. I climbed up to 5.8 with that before I ever bought a cam. Also, a really good way to learn about placing nuts is to lead an easy aid pitch--you will really learn to trust a solid placement with one of those little suckers, a great psychological boost. If you are interested in alpine, or just long trad routes, I find the smaller TriCams really handy, really solid, lighter, cheaper. On the downside, they can be tricky to place with one hand, but with practice it comes. Of course, along this line, an entire set of hexes weighs less than one BD camalot. And you can leave them if you have to bail, without too much financial strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbconlin Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Sorry, Lambone. I got a new avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigA Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 Thanks for all the good info, this is exactly what I was hoping for. If you have anything else to add, please do. I'll keep checking back. Thanks again, Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigA Posted October 3, 2002 Author Share Posted October 3, 2002 Just purchased some gear: BD #8 and #9 wired hexes 5,7, and 8 Wild Country Rocks Not much but it's a start. A little each week and soon enough the rack shall be complete...or complete for now! Again, thanks for all the input and suggestions. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Good choices, fill out your set of Rocks, they are sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrogers Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by slothrop: Eh, Clog cams aren't that bad. Granted, the placement of the sling is a bit annoying (it lies right where your thumb wants to go), but they are decent for my purposes. Maybe I just don't climb hard enough... oh, and thanks for the #4, Fred, it was just the piece I needed while climbing at Smith last week Slothrop- The #4 felt the most solid- I ended up with doubles in the 3" camalot and unemployed, that's why I sold it to you. I mangled the 1" pretty badly just getting out of Karate crack (thanks TimL) and have also managed to do a number on the 1/2"- I've had my BD's for 4 years and they're still in much better shape than the Clogs, which are less than a year old and placed less often. Glad to hear it's getting used though. I hate to see gear sit unused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by fredrogers: quote:Originally posted by slothrop: [qb]Eh, Clog cams aren't that bad. Granted, the placement of the sling is a bit annoying (it lies right where your thumb wants to go), but they are decent for my purposes. Maybe I just don't climb hard enough... oh, and thanks for the #4, Fred, it was just the piece I needed while climbing at Smith last week Slothrop- The #4 felt the most solid- I ended up with doubles in the 3" camalot and unemployed, that's why I sold it to you. I mangled the 1" pretty badly just getting out of Karate crack (thanks TimL) QB] Anytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dbconlin: I agree that you should definitly learn the art of chockcraft before getting too many cams. When I first started leading trad, I had a set of BD nuts and a set of hexes. That's it. I climbed up to 5.8 with that before I ever bought a cam. Also, a really good way to learn about placing nuts is to lead an easy aid pitch--you will really learn to trust a solid placement with one of those little suckers, a great psychological boost. Aid climbing is a great way to learn chockcraft and understanding "good" placements. Go do City Park at Index although you'll need to borrow a bunch of smaller stuff if your partner doesn't have enough to supplement. Check the Yard sale, I'll bet there are some folks that will sell some "spare" chocks. I like the Wild Country Rocks. Also, WC tech friends are still good (and lighter than BD) in the mid to big range. I like TCU's or Aliens in the smaller range. I started with chocks/hexes only before I bought cams. Looking back I'm glad I did because I still use them alot, mostly because I know how to place them and trust them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 There's nothing here that I disagree with too much... I just want to (choke!) agree with the sporty guy and db on tri-cams: cheap, light and bomber. Just make sure your partner knows how to retrieve them. I think I find more tri-cam booty than any other style. I like aliens for the small stuff and BDs for the big. I also try to place as few as possible - I save 'em for those '"gripping" moments. It builds character... Practice with your nuts like you did when you were a kid... It's always good to know exactly what your equipment can do. -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadSpace Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 this is my crag rack: camalots #3,2,1,.75,.5(1 of ea.) metolius #3,2,1,0(tcu's, 1 of ea.,double#1) assorted walnuts(#6,4,2,1) lowballs(#3,2,1)(thin stuff) 10 keylock qds all cams racked individually on wiregates(quicker too place/ easier to clip) walnuts and sliders on keylocks(never snag a cable again) 4 spectra slings(shoulder length) 4 spare wiregates 3 lockers + or - cordelette substitute 1 part gear for 1 part beer/cigarettes or 1 part gear for 1 part courage "when in doubt, run it out" [ 10-03-2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: HeadSpace ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by HeadSpace: here's my 2 cents; hardhitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 There's nothing here that I disagree with too much... I just want to (choke!) agree with the sporty guy and db on tri-cams: cheap, light and bomber. If it makes you feel any better, Ted, the Doctor has climbed enough trad pitches and placed enough Tri-Cams to actually know that they're good shit. DFA started climbing in a small town with no gym, and didn't really think about sport vs. trad; it was all just climbing. The Doctor read Freedom of the Hills, Basic Rock Craft, and other climbing instruction books, and soaked up plenty of info about equalizing anchors, placing opposing pieces, placing gear in flares, tying off pitons, and shit like that. Not that he remembers all of it, and not that he climbs trad routes much, but he's not such a sporty that he's totally oblivious to climbing's other technical aspects. [ 10-03-2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Jeez... Dr. Touchy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Nah, just makin' conversation. Although DFA did see an opportunity to try and deflect some of the slag he gets for being a sporty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I buy metolius and aliens aliens aliens mostly. Bomber light. Weight means a lot to me. Especially if I walk long distances often. I have a bd cam or two but don't think they are any better than the rest. The metolius are my workhorse brand. Dont be scared of the forged friends either. I got 3 of em and they are pretty awesome. They last forever. Get a bunch of long slings too. I almost never use sport draws any more. slinging chickenheads and doubling up for long traverses and building anchors etc. I cant stand to use those short draws. Just an opinion though. Oh and one last thing. Get booty gear it's way cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Oh my god... used by a sport climber... I feel so cheap... Reminds me of Ewan McGregor's diatribe in Trainspotting about the the Scots...(It's nae good blamin it oan the English fir colonising us. Ah don't hate the English. They're just wankers. We are colonised by wankers. We can't even pick a decent, vibrant, healthy culture to be colonised by) -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadSpace Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 yeah, booty gear, like 00 metolius tcu's at the gates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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