Dumb and Dumber of high altitude climbing

[ken4ord]

Yes folks just when we thought it could get any worse on the highest mountain of the world, lighting the way of the future.

[hefeweizen]

That is really tragic. It appears obvious to me that the whole excuse of paving and improving the roads is a cover to increase infrastucture so that it's easier to take advantage of the natural resources in Tibet.

 

I drive a car, I have a cell phone, I work in the building industry, so I'm certainly not entitled to be on a soap box condemning the actions of the rest of the world. But the state of affairs that our world has sunk to is disappointing.

[high_on_rock]

While we all wait patiently for the road up Rainier to be finished, let's not judge the road to Everest too harshly.

[i_like_sun]

While we all wait patiently for the road up Rainier to be finished, let's not judge the road to Everest too harshly.

 

 

 

Well, I don't see any problem in judging them and us with equal harshness.

[McStupid]

Well, I don't see any problem in judging them and us with equal harshness.

 

Yes I agree. The whole concept is pretty wacked.

[counterfeitfake]

A road to a mountain? Yeah that's fucked up!

[McStupid]

There is already a 110km rough path running to base camp but our road project will transform the road into a major tourist route.

 

In the past two years, many, many tourists have gone to Everest base camp...They have said the road is not good and is not safe, so the goal of improving this road is to make it more convenient for tourists visiting the mountain

 

Putting a road over a functional trail may not be the best idea. I guess I don't know how rough or dangerous the trail really is, but it sure hasn't kept climbers from making it up there.

[lizard_brain]

Why build a road when they can build a gondola?

[hefeweizen]

Armchair mountianeering novels are replete with stories of hash-smoking bus drivers coaxing their gypsy jalopies over 1000' ravines on the "roads" that lead to the last outpost before you strap up your camel and make for your 8,000m peak of choice. As a novice when I was growing up these parts of the stories always seemed like part of the adventure of travelling in that part of the world.

 

I know that improvements will always happen, and I sure aint bitchen about Hwy 20 getting me to the Liberty Bell group, but it begs the question of where the line between preserving adventure and reasonable access is. At what point do they halt development for the sake of shipping more and more humanity to the fucking "holy grail" of Everest?

 

Hotels are aid. The nicest accomodations any climber should have the night before is a flat spot in the parking lot.

Edited July 16, 2007 by hefeweizen

[high_on_rock]

To me it is the same hierocracy that we often apply to the rest of the world.

 

• Free Tibet: yet we don’t give the wallowas back to the nez pierce.

 

• Quit cutting down the rain forests: yet we continue to cut sequoia trees

 

• Roads in the mountains are bad: yet we drive as high on (Hood, Rainier, Glacier peak, …) as we can get.

 

• A gondola, WTF!: Yet the helicopter to base camp on Denali is always busy.

 

Or you could just take it down to the irrelevant rhetoric that we constantly hear about ourselves:

 

• Land of the free, home of the brave: but I will get a ticket if I don’t wear a bicycle helmet in Spokane, of if I drive without a seatbelt.

• Too many crowds at the crag: yet I am always there adding another person

 

 

 

[Stefan]

I for one, am for the road.

 

Getting more people to any mountain is a plus. They more people see an area they can't get to, the more people are willing to preserve the area in the future.

 

Its a necessary evil.

 

Heck, the Forest Service has now added a gate at Dingford up the Middle Fork right in your backyard. Now it is an additional 7 miles of hiking one way to the original trailhead--now all on a road. Let's see how many more people are willing to go into the wilderness with that hike. And lets not forget the abandonement of the road past Stehekin. What about the Suiattle River road in its condition? Abandon it? What about the Cascade River road--should the NPS just abandon it too?

[lizard_brain]

Not just a gondola, but a cafe and deli at the top. Wine bar, spa, espresso stand...

[high_on_rock]

An on Rainier we only built the same things half way up the mountian. That should give us moral high (low?) ground.

[lizard_brain]

We need a gondola up to Muir, too. And a hotel, visitor center, cafe, restaraunt, ski lodge and kareoke bar.

[high_on_rock]

I am willing to bet that if there was a gondola up to Muir, that within two years 80% of the climbs would start with a gondola ride. Merely my opinion.

[billcoe]

To me it is the same hierocracy that we often apply to the rest of the world.

 

• Free Tibet: yet we don’t give the wallowas back to the nez pierce.

 

• Quit cutting down the rain forests: yet we continue to cut sequoia trees

 

• Roads in the mountains are bad: yet we drive as high on (Hood, Rainier, Glacier peak, …) as we can get.

 

• A gondola, WTF!: Yet the helicopter to base camp on Denali is always busy.

 

Or you could just take it down to the irrelevant rhetoric that we constantly hear about ourselves:

 

• Land of the free, home of the brave: but I will get a ticket if I don’t wear a bicycle helmet in Spokane, of if I drive without a seatbelt.

• Too many crowds at the crag: yet I am always there adding another person

 

 

 

Nice call. Any English-speaking Sherpa will reiterate this feeling. They do not understand why we go over there, decrying them damming a river so that a few impoverished people can get 30 amp service and a huge improved quality of life to their homes.

 

Yet these very same assholes telling them to stop daming the Nepalese rivers for electricity will not tolerate less than a 200 amp service and every damn expensive electric gadget known to God and man in their own homes, even if it means killing salmon or a coal fired plant.

 

It's all a bunch of thoughtless big mouth hypocrytes and I'm not any better than the next person except I try and not tell the Nepalese how to do it.

[hefeweizen]

How long until the first passenger tourist heli-ride to the top of Everest? They've already flown up there. I give it 3 years tops.

[MCash]

I wonder if Tom Cruise will still try for the summit if he can just pay a couple million and get a chopper ride to the top.

[high_on_rock]

And I guess here is where I have to admit that, if money were no concern to me, I would gladly take a ride to the top of Everest. More of my hypocracy. I am a one of them too.

[archenemy]

I drive a car, I have a cell phone, I work in the building industry, so I'm certainly not entitled to be on a soap box condemning the actions of the rest of the world. But the state of affairs that our world has sunk to is disappointing.

Having these things does not preclude you from making your observations and opinions about the world known to others. Good for you for voicing your opinion (I noticed you didn't include "having a pc" on the list--funny)

[i_like_sun]

Why build a road when they can build a gondola?

 

 

What about the human canon?

[cj001f]

Nice call. Any English-speaking Sherpa will reiterate this feeling. They do not understand why we go over there, decrying them damming a river so that a few impoverished people can get 30 amp service and a huge improved quality of life to their homes.

 

Yet these very same assholes telling them to stop daming the Nepalese rivers for electricity will not tolerate less than a 200 amp service and every damn expensive electric gadget known to God and man in their own homes, even if it means killing salmon or a coal fired plant.

 

It's all a bunch of thoughtless big mouth hypocrytes and I'm not any better than the next person except I try and not tell the Nepalese how to do it.

 

 

Then there are some of us who get peeved because they sell out their beauty so damn cheap.

[ken4ord]

Yeah I am guilty of using roads in the mountains, but I often wonder what it would be like to not have those road and the solitude that could be found in places like WA Pass or Rainier. To me adding a road up Everest, is just sad, next will be the gondola to the summit. I remember dreaming about Everest as a kid, after I saw my first real pictures of the mountains, base camp garbage, ratty old fix lines strewn up the mountain, dead bodies, abandon tents, empty oxegen bottle, my desire faded real fast. The road IMO just adds to the mess.

 

Also this road is not going to benefit any of the local people if anything I see it hurting them more. First, there holy mountain is desicrated even worse than it is, most likely a parking lot will go in, then permanent buildings. People in that area will no longer be needed to porter supplies up to base camp, so many jobs will be lost. The only benefits I see is that it will make it easier to haul all the crap that exist there off the mountain, that is if any one gives a shit. And for the local people there will be better access to items out side of that area, though they won't be able to afford anything since they will have lost income. Sad.

[AlpineK]

I'm a little unclear on if there is serious talk of building a road past base camp. The reality of the situation is there already is a road to base camp on the north side. I've been in a large truck there, and that was 18 years ago. The only bad thing about paving it is the Chinese will probably trash some cool artifacts and practical things that get used today.

 

The road is a side issue to how the Chinese treat the Tibetans. Basically they treat them like shit. It's really sad.

[ken4ord]

Yeah I am unsure too, but from the sounds of it they will take it as high as they can go and build big ass hotel at the foot of the mountain. I am not sure if the road is really side issue as you say since the road will make it possible for more Chinese to come in and continue treating the tibetan people like sideshow freaks.