Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
mikey

eiger boots/ice axes

Recommended Posts

Does anyone have any oponions with the la sportiva eiger boot,grivel air tech ice axe (with the rubber handle or the blackdiamond raven ice axe ?

any info is appreciated as i wish to buy some gear really soon for a trip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by mikey:
Does anyone have any oponions with the la sportiva eiger boot

I purchased the Eiger boot by LS last year and have loved it ever since except for one reason that is it's downfall: It's not goretex.

Mine fit me so well, and I have had them for about 350 miles this past year. I even wore them on an enchantmetns traverse that was about 18-19 miles and my feet felt fine (considering).

They are not the warmest boot either. But they are good for summer mountaineering. Hope this helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing:The Grivel Air Tech Racing is not a real axe.It is not rated to take blows like other axes.If you go to the grivel website, it has a pdf you can view for the manual.

It says not to knock snow off your crampons with it, use it as a deadman, or use it to hammer anything in the snow. Sounds like it is good for one day hikes and such, but no good for a big climb, at least that's my .02

I want to know if anyone has any feedback yet on what appears to be sweet ice axe: BD Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mikey,

The Grivel axe is very much a real axe. Scot'teryx does not know what he is talking about. It is a fine tool for all around mountaineering. My partner has used his on mixed climbs in Alaska, I have used mine on WI 4+ winter alpine routes.

Also, Gore-tex in foot wear is a stupid joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the same token.

I was eyeballing the La Sportiva Glacier is any one had any experience with them also it seems that they run big (I tried the Lhotse on assuming they the same last) is anyone experience that they taking half a size smaller or is it just me

BTW I have both axes and I like them both but if I had to choose probably, I will go with the Raven due to durability

smile.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grivel AirTech Racing:

I have one and really like it. A really good general mountainering ice axe that is very light and...does have some limitations.

It is so light that when used as a "tool" it does have some problem with pentration, but it does work. It just tends to bounce off when a heavier tool or axe would penetrate. So swing harder, you'll get over it. The lightweight doesn't help with self arrest either. Also, the spike on the "Racing" version is not the best. I do agree with what scot'terx said....that it will not stand up to repeated abuse. But I do think it is a "real ice axe."

I do agree with DPS that it can be used on harder stuff...it just has limitations.

I have heard it is the lightest UIAA approved ice axe...true false, gear shop legend?

Overall it is one of the best axes on the market...I think it is the best lightweight axe out there. I have heard very good about the BD Raven. It is just a bit heavier.

Let us know what you go with and how it performs....

[big Drink]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by willstrickland:
Where you guys been? Do a search...we had a thread on Raven v. Air Tech about three weeks ago, lots of good info and such...click on this link for the thread

Yes, I started it.I end up buying the raven as well (at the time I already owned the Grivel air tech racing) and so far I like them both for a different purpose

grin.gif" border="0grin.gif" border="0

Now, How about those Glacier boots any experience? confused.gif" border="0

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isnt the raven 'glued' only to the shaft ? someone

mentioned the consequences if the came apart on a climb, and you were left without an axe head attached. i wonder how easy it is to self arrest with just a piece of straight metal in hand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a note:

There's a difference between the regular Air Tech and the Air Tech Racing axe. The regular one has a rubber handle and the racing one doesn't and is lighter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by mikey:
Isnt the raven 'glued' only to the shaft ? someonementioned the consequences if the came apart on a climb, and you were left without an axe head attached. i wonder how easy it is to self arrest with just a piece of straight metal in hand

I think the same technology as the X15 and the Shrike had been apply to the head gluing except in the very early X15 prototype I haven’t heard of any of them pop out although anything could happened to everything [geek]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Rodchester:
Grivel AirTech Racing:

8< snip snip 8<

The lightweight doesn't help with self arrest either.

confused.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tomtom:

Simple way of explaining it:

Take an REI ice axe (or SMC) and self arrest with it. Now take a Grivel Airtech Racing and self arrest with it. You will see the difference.

Another way:

Take a cubic meter of concrete. I get a 15 pound sledge and you get a 7.5 pound sledge. Who is going to pound it out more effeciently?

The weight of an ice axe makes a difference. The heavier the axe, the easier it bites into the snow/ice. Of course the teeth and the "clearance" (neg. v. positive) make a difference as well.

This is much the same as when you use it as a tool. A lighter tool does not get as good penetration as the heavier tool. The lighter axe will take more effort to do what the heavier axe does with less effort.

[big Drink]

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by mikey:
i wonder how easy it is to self arrest with just a piece of straight metal in hand

The "ski pole arrest" is a standard technique that uses a (usually) straight piece of metal. It is not as effective as arresting with an ice axe, but far better than the "elbow arrest" which works only in soft snow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by mikey:

Isnt the raven 'glued' only to the shaft ?


No. "Glue" is only used when composite materials are being used. The Raven's head and shaft are metal, and they're riveted together. The head-to-shaft connection is one that's been used for decades.

BTW, the Raven has a better spike for plunging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Rodchester:
Take a cubic meter of concrete. I get a 15 pound sledge and you get a 7.5 pound sledge. Who is going to pound it out more effeciently?

The weight of an ice axe makes a difference. The heavier the axe, the easier it bites into the snow/ice. Of course the teeth and the "clearance" (neg. v. positive) make a difference as well.

This is much the same as when you use it as a tool. A lighter tool does not get as good penetration as the heavier tool. The lighter axe will take more effort to do what the heavier axe does with less effort.

confused.gif" border="0

I agree with the weight to penetration argument when swinging the axe, but I think the sledgehammer analogy doesn't apply well to self arresting. How much difference is a pound of axe weight going to make when you've got 170 pounds of climber pushing down on top of it? I think the clearance and pick style have much more to do with it, at least when arresting... Unless the lighter axe isn't as stable-- but that's design more than weight, I think...

m

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AS FAR AS THE GLUING GOES, I HAVE READ AND HEARD THAT THE MATERIAL THAT the adhesive bonds will fail before the actual bonding....

this is the same technology used in aircract and many many many composite setups.....carbon fiber bikes are an excellent example of that.....and those things take some major abuse.....

and i believe that the head on the raven is glued, but i dunno i have that p.o.s. that will kill me...

and like dps said goretex in boots is an absolute joke.....

thankz again scotteryx to alert me to another hazard in the mountains.....scottertyx are oyu part of the green party?? you and ralph sure can find the evil in the world.........

current sketchiness update:

mealpinekgrivel air tech racing

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: erik ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

m:

Well like I said, why is it lighter tools (on water ice) don't penetrate as well? The weight difference is often just a few ounces...each tool still has the same strength behind it...right?

The sledge hammer analogy is demonstrative, but not perfect. Same guy swinging the hammer...same obect being struck...only difference is half the weight of the sledge.

The REI ice axe weighes something like 35 ozs (roughly)...about twice the Grivel Airtech Racing. Same guy swinging the ax (or arresting)...same surface being struck (or arresting)...only difference is half the weight.

Not much difference in self arresting and penetration into ice when swinging, as far as this is concerned. Each calls for penetration into the surface and each has a force behind it. True the self arrest is a more constant force versus what i would call a throwing or striking force...but I see a clear correlation between the two...as far as weight effecting the performance goes.

Maybe and engineer type could support of refute this? I have always read this, heard this, and seen it in practice...maybe I am wrong?

Does anyone know if there are any lighter axes that are UIAA approved? or approved by some other certifying body fopr self arrest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Marcus Engley:

confused.gif" border="0

I agree with the weight to penetration argument when swinging the axe, but I think the sledgehammer analogy doesn't apply well to self arresting. How much difference is a pound of axe weight going to make when you've got 170 pounds of climber pushing down on top of it? I think the clearance and pick style have much more to do with it, at least when arresting... Unless the lighter axe isn't as stable-- but that's design more than weight, I think...

m

I agree with Marcus. When I arrest, my hands are on the head and near the spike of the axe, and I throw my body weight into burying the pick. My body weight is significantly more than the axe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Rodchester:
m:

Well like I said, why is it lighter tools (on water ice) don't penetrate as well? The weight difference is often just a few ounces...each tool still has the same strength behind it...right?

True, each tool has the same strength behind it, and I completely agree that a heavier tool (sledge) will penetrate better than a lighter.

The REI ice axe weighes something like 35 ozs (roughly)...about twice the Grivel Airtech Racing. Same guy swinging the ax (or arresting)...same surface being struck (or arresting)...only difference is half the weight.

Not much difference in self arresting and penetration into ice when swinging, as far as this is concerned. Each calls for penetration into the surface and each has a force behind it. True the self arrest is a more constant force versus what i would call a throwing or striking force...but I see a clear correlation between the two...as far as weight effecting the performance goes.

I think the fact that the self arrest is a more constant force is the key. The additional pound of the axe when swinging will probably come close to doubling the amount of penetration force, since it's got the momentum of the swing to propel it. When self arresting though, you'd only be gaining another pound of downward force, without the multiplier that the swing provides.

We need a physicist though, I think. You may be right, and I expect that a heavier axe will help some, but I don't think it'll make a huge difference. [big Drink]

m

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a comment:

Regarding penetration when swinging (not arresting), a heavier axe will not always penetrate better than a lighter one, even if both have the same pick angle/sharpness/etc. Why is this? Because if the weight is more concentrated near the head in one and more toward the spike in another, the lighter axe with weight more toward the head could penetrate better...this is something worth considering in these superlight axes...IMO anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not part of the green party.

ANyway, the air tech is rated class B, as many others are rated, but of course Grivel recommends on their site not to use the axe to bat your crampons with, or use the head of the axe as a deadman. To me that says it's a great playtoy to have on the NE Butress of the Sod Glacier on Tiger mountain.

Gore Tex in boots is good from what I have seen and heard from friends, like La Sprtivas GTX series. My eigers can get soaked even after nixwaxed, but maybe it's just me and I need to hit the bong harder.

who knows, I am just a gaper tongue.gif" border="0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by scot'teryx:
Gore Tex in boots is good from what I have seen and heard from friends, like La Sprtivas GTX series. My eigers can get soaked even after nixwaxed, but maybe it's just me and I need to hit the bong harder.


one thing you might consider is that most of the water that gets into boots comes from the stiching...i seam seal all the stiching on my boots, granted it dont look kewl, but it works very well....also you have to reaply the seam seal when it wears out.......

also goretex doesnt work cus there is no circulation of air inside the boot to force the moiture through the materials...

thats cool you are an admitted gaper, cuz i dont think i am even that good......

erik the 4th class sketchfest.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by willstrickland:
Regarding penetration when swinging (not arresting), a heavier axe will not always penetrate better than a lighter one, even if both have the same pick angle/sharpness/etc. Why is this? Because if the weight is more concentrated near the head in one and more toward the spike in another, the lighter axe with weight more toward the head could penetrate better...

Good point, and one I meant to bring up...

m

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×