sparkytheflash Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 well it looks like the 2007 bolt chopper has struck again... turns out that the the first anchor for sagitarious has been chopped. this was the anchor just before you move into the flared chimney. i have to admit that this anchor did not make sence to me because you've already climbed scary liebacking with possible ground fall, why wouldn't you continue climbing through a little bit of challenging chimney action to get to some of the best climbing at index with rediculously clean falls. i saw more clusters with people that were new to index stopping at that anchor and belaying their partner up on a manky anchor instead of making a full pitch out of it. just not right. however, i am not keen on the fact that someone is roaming around index deciding for the rest of us which anchors should stay and which should go. anchors on routes that they did not put up themselves. i am not confident of the judgement of this person assuming they were the ones that chopped the japanese gardens 10a anchor. i believe that it is widely agreed that it was a mistakefor jg's first anchor to be chopped. before long we will be going out to index and get on thin fingers and find that 10a mid-anchor gone and that will piss me off. this week i did rogers corner and breakfast of champions in one pitch, i believe that is the way those routes should be climbed since it is a true yosemite length with quality varied climbing and it takes so much time to stop at each one of those anchors creating a traffice jamming keeping other parties off the route. does this mean i am going to chop rogers anchors, certainly not because it's not my route and i do not believe that everybody else has to climb in the same style as i do. i don't really know if there is anything the climbing community can do but it would be nice to find out who this person is and encourge them to go though better channels before treating other peoples routes as their own. if they're such a bad ass why didn't they put up the routes, maybe because they weren't born yet. so you may be too young to put up the best lines on the lower wall, leave them alone and go put up routes elsewhere at index there is plenty of rock for development. there are at least two routes going in on the upper wall that have great potential. either way, too young or too old with outdated ethics leave the existing route alone, follow their example and go amuse yourself some other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Is the midpoint anchor on Rogers Corner there so you can rap off with a 50m? I don't think anyone ever just climbs the 5.8 part and descends. It'd take a chain saw to remove the "anchor" at the top of Rogers Corner though, not a crowbar. I hope you are right about not showing up and finding more anchors gone. However, with both the JG and Sag anchors, you can see them (or notice them gone) from the ground. If something like Thin Fingers anchors were gone, you wouldn't know it until you had reached the ledge and were in for some trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Let this be a lession to all of you weak climbers, we don't want you ruining our hard routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Is the midpoint anchor on Rogers Corner there so you can rap off with a 50m? I don't think anyone ever just climbs the 5.8 part and descends. Yes and yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Why dont you go up and replace them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwallben Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Dave, that anchor was completely bogus. This wasn't an issue of trying to make the washington all arounder climb "harder". It was simply extra hardware that was didn't need to be there. I believe the remover of those anchors didn't fill in his holes though, which is the only negative thing I can see in this situation. I predict this thread will reach epic size. Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 It was simply extra hardware that was didn't need to be there. Why do you get to decide what "needs to be there"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 When was the last time you climbed at Index Kevbonehead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 When was the last time you climbed at Index Kevbonehead? July 4th 06 Why does that matter? I was not trying to get into an argument…..when someone makes a huge blanket statement about what gets to stay and what gets to go……someone has to call them on that. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Dave, that anchor was completely bogus. This wasn't an issue of trying to make the washington all arounder climb "harder". It was simply extra hardware that was didn't need to be there. I believe the remover of those anchors didn't fill in his holes though, which is the only negative thing I can see in this situation. I predict this thread will reach epic size. Too bad. Does not the route go from 5.9 at that point to 5.10b? 5.9 Climbers no longer can do the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 the chimney part is low-5th. then there's a nice .75 camalot crack to the top that's 5.10a. as others have pointed out, well protected and clean falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 And no issues with rope drag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Can you make a gear anchor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Sure, but to build a gear anchor at that particular location you'd need several large pieces, would you not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I don't like the idea of top-roping on chains past the end of the flake because of the pendulum a follower could take if they fall on the traverse. It's much less of a pendulum when TRing from up high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 When we top roped it, we left a big cam under the roof. Each person coming up dragged a rope and clipped through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 …..when someone makes a huge blanket statement about what gets to stay and what gets to go……someone has to call them on that. IMO. Every time somebody places a bolt, he is making that statement. Every time Kevbone argues against chopping a bolt, Kevbone is making that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 This move makes no sense from any standpoint.... style, ethics, traffic, crowds, or visual. Again, like the jg station that had to be replaced, this belay station (location not hardware) could perhaps be older than the person that chopped it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cman Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 i did an aid climb last year to those anchors, that smaller roof just below sagitarious finishes right there. granted it was not a very exciting climb but still worth doing for some easy aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 The aid route below actually goes free at 11 something. It's Arachnid Arch but if you can deal with aiding that you should have no problem finishing up on Iron Horse to the Ringing Flake anchor, but at this rate, who knows how long that anchor will be there?! It's unfortunate that people are going against what appears to be a consensus, albiet not a unanimous consensus, to leave the JG anchor in place. I don't recall seeing any conversation as to the validity of this anchor, but we also shouldn't just assume that this was done by the same person. It does seem that if you feel strongly enough to remove them, you'd be willing to admit to the fact and accept critisism. It's seems to me that anchor chopping should go something like instant replay in the NFL. If the refs don't have a completely good and obvious reason to overturn a call, then it stands. If an anchor has been there since before time and it's got at least a few good reasons for keeping it, then it should stay. Like Dave had said, there's plenty of rock to be developed, even at very moderate grades for Index. Put some effort into something positive, be it scrubbing old stuff or maybe uncovering some new gems. Or go replace some of the old manky stuff that's lurking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 The first time I rope-solo aided Iron Horse I was unable to figure out how to get past the blankness above the fixed pins, and had to resort to aiding rightwards to that anchor. I was a n00b and out of my depth. I didn't realize I could have just down-aided. In that respect, that anchor was vital because it let me escape my own folly and learn how to be a better climber without dying or getting hurt, and without committing to going up to the next anchors on wide gear or mandatory free climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltoro Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I too have used the midpoint anchor during aiding, if for nothing else, to practice belay changeovers for soloing, or to bail off in foul weather. At the very least, these anchors may help to keep newer aid climbers off of other more popular free climbs. Iron Horse is a very accessible aid route that is not often free climbed. Maybe without the anchor, those same climbers will not be as keen to jump on it, knowing they can bail partway if need be. It just seems like it wasn't really that benefitial to remove it. It's not like people were often using that anchor and tying up Sagitarious. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I don't think I have ever stopped at the lower anchors, and I agree - the follower is much better off from the upper anchors. That being said, I don't agree with someone who didn't put up the route chopping the lower anchors (can this statement be verified?!?) Were these anchors added after the FFA? Do we know who put them there? Questions obviously remain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 That being said, I don't agree with someone who didn't put up the route chopping the lower anchors (can this statement be verified?!?) Donn Heller is unfortunately dead, and Don Harder lives in California. He posts at this site Were these anchors added after the FFA? The FA was the FFA Do we know who put them there They were in existence when I first climbed Sag in 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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