sobo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Yes, but they were using their cell phones and if they actually did have a GPS unit as discussed, they could have read off the GPS their exact location to the rescuers.....Regardless, there was no need for an MLU to be used in this rescue scenario and it did not provide them with any new information that the rescue team could not have garnered from what the climbers were carrying already. Exactly, but because a LEO used the term "MLU" in a positive sense, the media is gonna be all over this one. And clueless legislators and on-line news polls are only going to be a half-step behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmncwrtr Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Just saw on tv. The three are down. The dog looked fine. The PMR member being interviewed said the dog probably saved their lives by keeping them warm. He also made it sound like they wouldn't have found them without the MLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 ...He also made it sound like they wouldn't have found them without the MLU. I suspect a "higher-up" prompted him to inject that little sound byte. But then again, I'm cynically biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbeam Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Happy ending for all, including the pooch. I guess the dog helped aid in keeping the climbers warm throughout the night. Glad to hear that everyone is down off the mountain safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) We night skied at Mt Hood Meadows last night. The weather was wild but not radical as I have seen before. The bowls on the Mt hood express after six pm were great, made this old guy ski like I have not in along time. Just never have understood people gambling with the weather. Before I went last night I new what to expect but new the snow would be good. Been up Hood more times than I can count. Weather is as important as conditioning and skill, it should constantly be watched by back country travelers. I know weeks before what the snowpack is like,I constantly watch the weather. And going on a trip, long range forcast is a must. JMHO. I have called PDX before when heading out on a quick climb of Hood in the winter at any hour they can tell you temps, wind speed and direction. Lets you know if it is worth it.. Edited February 20, 2007 by Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Too tired to read this whole thread, but I'll make a quick comment on the use of the MLU's on this mission. The party of 5 had a GPS, MLU, cell phone and (I believe) a FRS radio. We used their GPS coords to figure out where they were and come up with a game plan for getting them. When we got close, we used the MLU to get even closer, and then finally the FRS to contact them and tell them to come out of the snow cave so we could see them. Finding a snow cave in a whiteout is freakin hard. The part of 3 who fell had an MLU and a cell phone. We were able to use the MLU to estimate their position by triangulating based off of several readings from teams in the field. To get a reading, one must maneuver the MLU receiver to within a more-or-less line of sight position from the transmitter. That allows us to get an estimated bearing to the transmitter. When you combine several bearings from multiple locations, you start to get an idea of where they are. It took us most of the night to do this. Of course, knowing where the subjects are is only half the battle. Actually getting to them and then getting them out is another story. In this scenario, the MLU was another helpful piece of technology and it was used to help locate both parties. I'm glad they had them because it made our job easier. I'm also glad they had a GPS and a cell phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 ...the MLU was another helpful piece of technology and it was used to help locate both parties. I'm glad they had them because it made our job easier. I'm also glad they had a GPS and a cell phone. Nice work, cluck. You PMR guys have been busy lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Thanks Cluck. As a member of SAR, do you think that the Legislature should pass a law requiring people to carry MLUs above 10,000 ft? Another observation Since this party was below 10,000' they would not have been required to carry an MLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I don't presume to speak for cluck and others in SAR/Mountain Rescue, but I am also a member of SAR/MR, and I do NOT think any Legislature should pass a law requiring the mandatory use of MLUs. Just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy66 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Great job Cluck......Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iciclespyder Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I am glad they are back home safe, but can you really call them climbers if they had a dog with them? I think they should be called a lost party of hiker instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The government has enough rules no more laws! If people do not want to go search then wait till the weather clears. People have to accept risk or stay home. What should be regulated are these guides or who ever leads these first timers on mountains. Like they do in Europe. But still things will go wrong. No more regulation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Yeah Paul - "Mountain of Doom" has been keeping us busy! Ryland - personally, I am against the legislation. I think government mandate to carry an "electronic signaling device" has both benefits and drawbacks. Benefits: * might make the "search" part of "search and rescue" easier in SOME situations Drawbacks: * might give people a false sense of security leading them to take greater risks * might give lost climbers (and the general public) a sense that they are entitled to rescue regardless of conditions * lost climbers who did not bring an electonic signaling device might be reluctant to call for help becuase they're afraid of getting into trouble You'll notice these arguments are similar to arguments against charging climbers for rescue. In my opinion, the drawbacks of a government-mandated policy outweigh the benefits. It would be nice if more people carried some sort of signaling device (MLU, PLB, or GPS+cell phone) but I don't think legislation is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 ...You'll notice these arguments are similar to arguments against charging climbers for rescue.... Exactly. Which is why I feel the way I do about both subjects. ...In my opinion, the drawbacks of a government-mandated policy outweigh the benefits. It would be nice if more people carried some sort of signaling device (MLU, PLB, or GPS+cell phone) but I don't think legislation is the answer. True again. "Mountain of Doom" - that's a good 'un. Mt. Hood, the Mountain of Doom, with its terrible Südwand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I agree 100% with Sobo and Cluck - no regulation. The drawbacks definitely outweigh the advantages. As part of a Mt. Rescue team though, I would be stoked knowing the party we're trying to find has one, in addition to a gps and working cell phone. A searchlight would be good, too. And flares. And an airhorn...yeah...an airhorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 ...one that makes the klaxon sound! Ah-ooooooog-ah! Ah-oooooooog-ah! Dive! Dive! Yeah, that's the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtn_mouse Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Perhaps it would be more helpful to have a ledge locator. An MLU (magical ledge unit). Climbers know, always stay off ledges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLS Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I agree. If they had GPS - why not use it to take a reading back to Timberline on the way up? I'm an old fogey, but we always used to take a compass reading back to Timberline. Same thing in the old days on the Dogs Head route on Mt. St. Helens. Very easy to follow the fall line down in a whiteout. It sounds like: (a) they never took a reading to Timberline, or (b) if they had one they didn't believe their equipment & over-compensated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Perhaps it would be more helpful to have a ledge locator. An MLU (magical ledge unit). Climbers know, always stay off ledges. I have friends that pack magical ledge units with them when the go climbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUINOZ Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Originally Posted By: CUINOZ Being stupid, meaningless and an idiot as described by (dmuja) isn't so bad but seems to be pointless for this thread. (Bobbill)OMG, this is just begging for help. Somebody please.... Retard Bob, I came here to identify with climbers not adolescent writers. Maybe, you are the one who needs some help. I think you are a prick to mouth off such BS about me. I was already dissed by other members because I was a new member. Read the previous posts, jerk off, before you spout off. My presence here is only genuine. Know the facts before you make accusations. Edited February 20, 2007 by CUINOZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I'm an old fogey, but we always used to take a compass reading back to Timberline. Same thing in the old days on the Dogs Head route on Mt. St. Helens. Very easy to follow the fall line down in a whiteout. It sounds like: (a) they never took a reading to Timberline, or (b) if they had one they didn't believe their equipment & over-compensated. Hmmmmmm, maybe not when the wind is howling and pushing you off course, it's easy to say such things in the comfort and confines of our homes. I'm an ol fogey too. I was shocked to see how cavalier people in this area were concerning hitting the mountains on a marginal weekend. I always felt like the casual attitude towards safety and knowledge was a response to too much babysitting from the govemnment. Give everyone an MLU, these incidents will continue to happen and may even pick up. Withdraw all support (except volenters like PMR), let people make "What if" arrangments in advance - including the financial arrangements, and these issues and incidents will go down. Prepare to accept some deaths. My opinion only. Keep the gov't out of our business. If you want them to handle these issues, then they should get to tell you when you can go or cannot go and if they say you can, then they will get to tell you what the terms and conditions are: like carry an MLU, cellphone, GPS and pager and leave the weed at home. But I want them the F* out of MY life. I may die next weekend. I'm planning on hanging it out. Alone......... SO WHAT? Why should that be your business- or the govenments business? We all will die. Sometime. Life is choice. Live it. FREEDOOOMMMMMM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullster Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 In this scenario, the MLU was another helpful piece of technology and it was used to help locate both parties. I'm glad they had them because it made our job easier. I'm also glad they had a GPS and a cell phone. If they had a GPS, why didn't they just give coordinates? Did you mean that the party of 5 had a GPS, which took you to the snowcave, but the party of 3 who fell did not?? If they did have a gps and did not use it -- shame on them. Regardless of the fact that they had a gps with the group and didn't use it to find palmer is, well, idiotic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopper_62 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 switched over to 1190 am radio on the commute home tonight (I-5 was a parking lot going south) – a couple of talk show dudes had the legislator who is sponsoring the MLU law on their show. he specifically stated that the only reason he is sponsoring the bill is because of the december fiasco and here’s the interesting part… as currently proposed, the “law” would have no penalty – in other words it would be just a recommendation. now there’s your tax monies going to a good cause – I’m sure it doesn’t cost anything to pass legislation. get the pen and paper out and let’s keep this thing from being passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUINOZ Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Life is certainly a Choice. You may not of had the privildge of choosing when you came into this world but as you do say, you do have the final say. Look at what has happened the past (2) days and say to yourself, Yahoo Yippie!!!!! It feels awesome to reval in what takes us at suprise. Be strong and go for tomorrow as we never understand the faction of freedom. I am happy tonight for the safe return of hard working rescuers and the rescued stranded climbers. Good night, CUINOZ Edited February 20, 2007 by CUINOZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 A nice ending and thank god for all the searchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.