Jake_Gano Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 So... aside from the obvious (diff materials), how do the new viper and cobra stack up side by side? Does either one stand out over the other? How about the new cobra vs. old cobra. Is the balance and weight distrubution about the same? The weight dist. and balance were what really sold me on the old-style cobras? Quote
mike_m Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 Got to try out a set of the new ones at Ouray in January. More curve to the shaft in the new ones. The set I used had one with the small Viper hammer head and one with an original Cobra head. The heavier head made the balance feel just like the old ones; the small (what will be stock) head made that tool seem a little light and out balance, for my swing anyway. Quote
John Frieh Posted July 13, 2007 Posted July 13, 2007 Does either one stand out over the other? As in if you could own one set of tool? What are you getting at? I think it depends on what you are looking for... are you shopping for an all around ice tool or are you planning on just water ice action and no alpine stuff...? How about the new cobra vs. old cobra. Is the balance and weight distribution about the same? I haven't been climbing ice that long so I never owned a pair of old cobras so I hesitate to comment. I do know a few unbiased parties who owned/loved/cherished the old cobras and tried out the new ones and have either placed orders for the new ones or are planning on doing so. And there is pressure for another PDX Ice Festival this year so assuming we get our act(s) together down here you should be able to demo all the tools from all the vendors this fall. Now do some pull ups! Quote
dbconlin Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Cobra: 299 OUCH! that's the same price they were when new. I thought the old cobras were $269, which I thought was plenty steep enough. Either way, I reiterate my previous sentiment, which is...OUCH! Quote
dbconlin Posted July 15, 2007 Posted July 15, 2007 Does either one stand out over the other? As in if you could own one set of tool? What are you getting at? I think it depends on what you are looking for... are you shopping for an all around ice tool or are you planning on just water ice action and no alpine stuff...? I am interested in further insight into this question. Let's say for alpine mixed and waterfall ice, perhaps an all-around tool... Quote
John Frieh Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Cobra: 299 OUCH! that's the same price they were when new. I thought the old cobras were $269, which I thought was plenty steep enough. Either way, I reiterate my previous sentiment, which is...OUCH! If you think you can make them for cheaper be my guest. Quote
John Frieh Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Does either one stand out over the other? As in if you could own one set of tool? What are you getting at? I think it depends on what you are looking for... are you shopping for an all around ice tool or are you planning on just water ice action and no alpine stuff...? I am interested in further insight into this question. Let's say for alpine mixed and waterfall ice, perhaps an all-around tool... In general a pure WI tool tends to sport a larger bend and/or a double handle. The larger bend allows for easier/larger clearance around bulges/roofs. With that said the majority of cc.coms are still cruxing out on WI4 (not a lot of bulges/roofs on 4s) so chances are having a tool with a ton of clearance likely isn't a deal breaker for most... Both the previous and current vipers have a larger bend in the tool over the previous and current cobras making them a little more user friendly on steeper terrain. With that said now it gets a little fuzzy... if you get a pair of tools and learn how to drive them (that one's for you Pax) you can get up just about anything. But know how to use them. Be comfy on them. A certain cc.comer who will remain nameless got up peak 11300 in AK with a pair of BD reactors... did someone forget to tell him you aren't suppose to take double handle leashless tools in the alpine? No... he just knew how to drive them... So... if you have a pair of tools... get comfy with them. Use them... a lot. 4 months to ice season! Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 After fondling the new cobras, i'd have to say they are the sexiest tool i've ever seen. I'd buy them even if I didnt ice climb. Quote
zeroforhire Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 I think John is someone who knows what he is talking about... if that is arrogance to you, then fine. Doesn't sound arrogant to me. In fact I appreciate his insight... he isn't making people take what he has to say as absolute scripture... like anything else these are his opinions and insights. Quote
gt5816v Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 I've never gotten the impression of arrogance but then again Mark might be joking and I'm too dim to recognize it..... Quote
John Frieh Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 New cobras, vipers, and ice screws are now available for ogling on bdel.com XoooXoXOoXooooXOXOOxoXOoXoXoxoXO mr. arrogant Quote
billcoe Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 (edited) all of your posts sound so arrogant. You obviously haven't met John: he kind of talks just like that, except he's way upbeat, encouraging and smiling. He's way into this and wants to share it with you so that you have the benefit of his (hard won) experience. He's happy to freely and openly share if you appreciate the info. (most of us really, really do BTW) Might be one of the most positive, upbeat, friendly folks out there. He did a massive amount of organizing and giving up his personal time last year to do the ice climbing comp at Portland Rock Gym. Maybe try re-reading his posts, and think of him smiling and encouraging you, wanting you to both climb better (for yourself) and encourage him to climb better too. Not arrogant at all. At all ! Thought you might want to hear it so you can look differently about it. Try to imagine him as a smiling, happy, upbeat, fun-loving dude who loves this stuff and just wants to share. That's what it is. ps, Mark: I tried to see where that arrogant thing you see might have come from. John will be the first to tell you that he's in open mouth awe at that certain un-named dude he mentions in his post above who drove the reactors up peak 11300 in Alaska. He regularly climbs with him, and probably has said exactly that right to the dude I'd expect. (the rest of us stand in awe as well, so we're on that train as well). Not arrogance for sure, just stating facts up there. Edited July 26, 2007 by billcoe Quote
gt5816v Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 That's such an arrogant thing to say Bill......... Quote
billcoe Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 That's such an arrogant thing to say Bill......... Yes, my inner arrogant prickness does leak out much like semen from a dick occasionally. ... sigh... Not much I can do about it, I'm proud to be outclimbing 2nd graders still. Quote
Mark_Husbands Posted July 27, 2007 Posted July 27, 2007 Ok, I stand corrected. I should not have been judgmental. Apologies to John. Quote
zeroforhire Posted September 15, 2007 Posted September 15, 2007 ok, time to bring this thread back... now that the tools are out, what are your impressions? I have heard a few negative things about the vipers... something about how they are too light, and don't stick that well... is this true? How closely do the new vipers compare with the old ones? If I was only going to buy one set of tools, would it be worth the extra cash to get the cobras? And, lastly... what makes the cobras worth so much more than the vipers... (besides the carbon fiber... I know that stuff is pricey). thanks Quote
John Frieh Posted September 16, 2007 Posted September 16, 2007 I have heard a few negative things about the vipers... something about how they are too light, and don't stick that well... is this true? Look at W's post in this thread. How closely do the new vipers compare with the old ones? Look @ the BD website. If I was only going to buy one set of tools, would it be worth the extra cash to get the cobras? That depends on you. Come demo them and decide for yourself. what makes the cobras worth so much more than the vipers... (besides the carbon fiber... I know that stuff is pricey) Carbon fiber vs aluminium shaft. Demo these tools and others at the PDX Ice festival. Quote
kurthicks Posted September 17, 2007 Posted September 17, 2007 yea, but the 'fang' is still too small to use comfortably with gloves on. come on BD. Quote
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