Saddam Stretched

[Seahawks]

hmmm ... lickin puss, killin arabs ... lickin puss, killin araba ... lickin puss, killin arabs.

 

Life is so unfair - why can't we have our puss lickin and arab killin at the same time?

 

Now that is funny!!! Good one.

[tvashtarkatena]

A quick note on the conspiracy theory that the war was waged to pump up oil profits (which it certainly did):

 

I don't buy it at all. If you read the history of political ideas leading up to the war, going back 15 years prior, you see activist liberals like Wolfowitz and Kagan (Wolfie being the offspring of holocaust survivors), pushing for the spreading of democracy (and elimination of tyranny) through unilateral, US military power. Part of this idea stems from the 'what if we'd nipped Hitler in the bud' idea, part from 'we need to make a comeback from Vietnam', and part from the idea that, if you can dream it, you can make it a reality, regardless of historical precedent.

 

Guys like Wolfie, and later Rummy, had been pushing these ideas through widely read journals, editorials, and adjunct groups like the Defense Policy Board all through the 90s.

 

9/11 provided the catalyst which got W off his ass (remember the 'vacation president'?). Hussein was top of the list of targets after 9/11, and a perfect poster child for trying all these new ideas out. Hell, we'd already invaded Iraq once, and we'd gutted their military power. Saddam was a real prick. What could go wrong? This administration really believed they'd bring democracy to Iraq, and that it would spread throughout the Middle East in a perfectly circular ripple of love, forgiveness, and freedom.

 

Didn't work out that way, and the oil companies, being the profit seeking entities that they are, took full advantage of the price increases due to Middle Eastern insecurity (and a sudden drop in refining capacity due to Katrina). Cheney and all the Halliburton stuff was quite a bit more unseemly, I will agree on that.

 

Not as sexy a movie as the whole conspiracy thing, but, afterall, that's why we invented fiction.

Edited January 3, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[gambo]

What if we were a food item? Which would you choose?

 

hmmm seahawk but only with a lot of booze and tabasco sauce ; )

[sexual_chocolate]

What if we were a food item? Which would you choose?

 

funny stuff!

 

and yes, i eat meat and am not proud, but grass raised organic cow (grain fed at the end of his/her wonderful playful cage-free romp through the hills life) is surely a visceral satisfaction unmatched by most other things we call food. perhaps it's time to take a break from meat though, and recall the feelings arising from a non-self-righteous adherence to vegetarian diet....

[Seahawks]

Let me see if I have this straight: You throw out dozens of bullshit claims, and when challenged your only counter is "just Google it yourself - you'll see!" That's probably the weakest bullshit reply I've ever read. For future reference; when making outrageous claims the burden of a footnote, link, citation, whatever, falls upon you. Don't insult yourself and others by regurgitating unsubstantiated horseshit and then telling the masses to Google it for themselves. The internet is not a library...or a bodyguard...or a teat. Grow a brain.

 

 

here's some interesting stuff on historic connections. I looked at a bunch of other sources, and have read more on paper indicating the same. fairweather, if you have something that refutes this, i'd love to see it.

 

i couldn't find anything on 4 nazis in the current administration. buckaroo, any links or info?

 

The Bush family ties to the Nazi party are well known. In their 1994 Secret War Against the Jews, Mark Aarons and John Loftus use official US documents to establish that George Herbert Walker, George W. Bush's maternal great-grandfather, was one of Hitler's most important early backers. He funneled money to the rising young fascist through the Union Banking Corporation.

 

In 1926, Walker arranged to have his new son-in-law, Prescott Bush---father of President George Bush I, grandfather of George Bush II---hired as Vice President at W.A. Harriman and Company. Prescott became a senior partner when Harriman merged with a British-American investment company to become Brown Brothers Harriman. In 1934 Prescott Bush joined the Board of Directors of Union Banking.

 

The bank helped Hitler rise to power. It also helped him wage war. As late as July 31, 1941---well after the Nazi invasion of Poland---the U.S. government froze $3 million in Union Banking assets linked to Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen was noted in the American press as a "German industrialist and original backer of Adolph Hitler."

 

Loftus writes that Thyssen's "American friends in New York City [were] Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker, the father and father-in-law of a future President of the United States." That would be the current president's father, George Herbert Walker Bush, also the former CIA director.

 

On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi Germany's banking operations in New York City, which were under the direction of Prescott Bush. The government seized control of Union Banking Corporation under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The liquidation yielded a reported $750,000 apiece for Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker. The book, The Splendid Blonde Beast: Money, Law and Genocide, goes into exhaustive detail on Bush-Harriman Nazi money laundering. More recently, Michael Kranish covers the same Bush-Nazi relationships in The Rise of the Bush Family Dynasty published in the Boston Globe. Loftus documents that "Prescott Bush knowingly served as a money launderer for the Nazis. Remember that Union Bank's books and accounts were frozen by the U.S. Alien Property Custodian in 1942 and not released back to the Bush family until 1951."

 

Often ignored are the Bush family's post-World War II dealings with former Nazis. John Foster Dulles, who had worked with the Bush family in the Harriman Company in laundering money for Nazi Germany, was Dwight Eisenhower's Secretary of State. His brother Allen became CIA director.

 

As Martin Lee documents in The Beast Reawakens, American intelligence recruited numerous top Nazis to spy on the Soviets during the Cold War. Many established connections to the Bush family that had helped finance their original rise to power. In 1988 Project Censored, in its top award, noted "how the major mass media ignored, overlooked or undercovered at least ten critical stories reported in America's alternative press that raised serious questions about the Republican candidate, George Bush, dating from his reported role as a CIA 'asset' in 1963 to his presidential campaign's connection with a network of anti-Semites with Nazi and fascist affiliations in 1988." Investigative reporter Russ Bellant established ties between the Republican Party and former Axis Nazis and fascists.

 

 

Karl Rove has parallel ties. The shadowy Rove serves as "Bush's Brain" in the current White House. He is the political mastermind behind the California coup, and is now in the headlines for outing Valerie Plame, the CIA wife of Ambassador Joseph Wilson. A consummate strategist, Rove may have outed Plame in retaliation for Wilson's failure to back up the Bush claim that Saddam Hussein was buying nuclear weapons materials in Africa. According to some published reports, as many as seventy CIA operatives have been put at risk by Rove's retaliatory strike.

 

According to Wilson, and to Retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander Al Martin (www.almartinraw.com), Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse.

 

Rove, who has been based in Utah and associated with the Mormon Church, is widely viewed as the chief engineer of the current Bush administration. He and Tom DeLay are attempting to force the Texas legislature to redistrict its Congressional delegations, adding seven sure seats to the Republican column. By controlling the state houses in New York, Florida, Texas and California, the GOP would have a lock on the four largest states in the union, and thus the ability to manipulate vote counts and strip voter registration rolls in the run-up to the 2004 election.

 

Rove is a prime behind-the-scenes mover in the Schwarzenegger campaign. On May 1, 1939, a year after the Nazis took control of Schwarzenegger's native Austria, his father Gustav, voluntarily joined Hilter's infamous Strumabteilung (SA), "brown shirt" stormtroopers. This was just six months after the brown shirts played a key role in the bloody Kristallnacht attacks on Germany's Jewish community.

 

The Vienna daily Der Standard noted recently that "Gustav, a high-ranking Nazi, brought up the bespectacled, rather frail boy with an iron fist and quite a few slaps in the face." Arnold's father favored a Hitler-style mustache in photos.

 

On October 3, ABC News broke the story of Schwarzenegger's 1977 interview in which he was asked whom he admired. Schwarzenegger replied, "I admire Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education, up to power. I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it."

 

To cover himself, Schwarzenegger has made substantial donations to the Los Angeles-based Wiesenthal Center, which tracks down ex-Nazis. Arnold has also renounced Hitler.

 

But he has not renounced his friendship with fellow Austrian Kurt Waldheim, the one-time head of the United Nations with known Nazi ties. The book Arnold: An Unauthorized Biography, documents Arnold toasting Waldheim, who had participated in Nazi atrocities during World War II, at his wedding to Maria Shriver. "My friends don't want me to mention Kurt's name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy," Arnold said. "But I love him and Maria does to, and so thank you, Kurt."

 

 

if all of this above is true, what does it really say? people change, and we can't hold them hostage to the attrocities of their forefathers, right?

 

but there is also an old saying: "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree." i think it's pretty clear that the republican political apparatus as it stands today (and in the last hundred years) has many similarities to nazi ideology and actions, from ultra-nationalism, to strong police-state, to ultra-militarism, extra-legal maneuverings, torture, end-arounds around civil protections, the creation of a bogeyman enemy to galvanize public opinion. i have republicans in my family, and it is truly frightening to see first-hand the type of mentality that is fomented by a blind allegiance to this type of ideology, and the excuses and rationalizations that it produces. i'm not saying other ideologies don't foment this type of behaviour....

 

anyways, ramble ramble. i just think it's important to stay open to all possibilities, without believing blindly in any of them. it's of course harder to do once we have staked out opinions and beliefs.

 

Okay I checked Yahoo on this. I can find stories about this but they are all on Very liberal web sites. (i.e. fanatics) Is there actually a credible source out there?

[Seahawks]

okay I found this, Why would the liberal media do this if there was anything to the Nazi crap????? Doesn't make sense

 

Major U.S. media outlets, including ABC News, NBC News, CNN, The New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Los Angeles Times and Miami Herald, as well as Knight-Ridder Newspapers, have repeatedly declined to investigate the story when information regarding discovery of the documents was presented to them beginning Friday, August 29. Newsweek U.S. correspondent Michael Isikoff, famous for his reporting of big scoops during the Clinton-Lewinsky sexual affair of the 1990s, declined twice to accept an exclusive story

[tvashtarkatena]

What if we were a food item? Which would you choose?

 

hmmm seahawk but only with a lot of booze and tabasco sauce ; )

 

I might feed Seahawk to the dogs; they'll eat anything, but then again the de-worming afterwards would be a hassle. I'm not sure how much food value is left in a turd, however fresh, anyway.

[wfinley]

Do these count?

 

How about the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

 

How about Newsweek (note that this article was not published in the US version of Newsweek: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0306/S00055.htm

[Seahawks]

I don't know, all this stuff is from very liberal people. Hell if it is true it was his grandfather. Hell I don't know much about either of my grandpa's. I think it the same crap as those people that found all that crap on Clinton when he was president. Pretty soon they start making shit up.

 

 

In April 1999, Texas Governor George W. Bush proclaimed a week of remembrance for the Holocaust. He said, "I urge Texans to never forget the inhumanity of those who perpetrated the Holocaust, and reflect upon our own humanity and our responsibility to respect all peoples."

[Winter]

Dude the Guardian? Are you serious? Its British! You can't trust those carpet baggers. The British are all paranoid conspiracy-minded liberals. NBC is a WAAYY more credible source of news and information. Wake up!

[Seahawks]

okay found this. Its crap.

 

President Bush owes his family inheritance to Adolf Hitler, and his grandfather, Prescott Bush, helped finance the Nazi rise to power in Germany. These stories had circulated for years but resurfaced on May 13, 2003, in the Cuban Communist Party newspaper Granma, headlined, "Bush Family Funded Adolf Hitler." As the Associated Press reports, Prescott had been on the board of Union Banking Corp., whose majority owner, the Thyssen family of Germany, indeed had funded the Nazis against a feared communist takeover of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. Family leader Fritz Thyssen broke with Hitler over the 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom against the Jews, was stripped of his citizenship and fortune, and was in a Nazi prison at the time the elder Bush sat on that board. There is no evidence that Prescott Bush, who owned just one share of Union Banking, had anything to do with the Thyssen political work in Germany.

 

Some critics go even further to accuse the president of having inherited ill-gotten profits from a Nazi slave-labor operation near the Auschwitz death camp in Poland. But the Polish company in which Prescott Bush had an interest, Silesian-American Corp., was stolen by the Nazis in 1939, the year before Auschwitz was built. Discussing this controversy, columnist Joe Conason of the New York Observer writes, "Henry Ford was a Nazi collaborator. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a Nazi sympathizer. Unless additional information emerges to indict him, Prescott Bush Sr. was neither. To misuse such terms for political advantage against his grandson is to trivialize very grave offenses."

[JayB]

So the principal figures in the Bush administration and the ideology that guides their actions are direct lineal descendants of the NAZI party, engaged in a ruthless conspiracy to undermine this country's political foundations and bend the apparatus of the state to enrich themselves and consolidate their power...while simultaneously acting as unwitting stooges for a Zionist conspiracy perpetrated by a cabal of Zionist plants who cleverly concealed both their Jewish origins and their designs to twist US policy to serve Israeli interests behind their...Jewish surnames and ancestry. Exquisite.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

So the principal figures in the Bush administration and the ideology that guides their actions are direct lineal descendants of the NAZI party, engaged in a ruthless conspiracy to undermine this country's political foundations and bend the apparatus of the state to enrich themselves and consolidate their power...while simultaneously acting as unwitting stooges for a Zionist conspiracy perpetrated by a cabal of Zionist plants who cleverly concealed both their Jewish origins and their designs to twist US policy to serve Israeli interests behind their...Jewish surnames and ancestry. Exquisite.

 

 

...or maybe they're just a bowl full of assholes.

Edited January 3, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[gambo]

I'm sipping on a Guinness right now watching this. BRILLIANT!!!

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Dude, what time zone are you in? It's not even noon, here.

[kevbone]

okay found this. Its crap.

 

President Bush owes his family inheritance to Adolf Hitler, and his grandfather, Prescott Bush, helped finance the Nazi rise to power in Germany. These stories had circulated for years but resurfaced on May 13, 2003, in the Cuban Communist Party newspaper Granma, headlined, "Bush Family Funded Adolf Hitler." As the Associated Press reports, Prescott had been on the board of Union Banking Corp., whose majority owner, the Thyssen family of Germany, indeed had funded the Nazis against a feared communist takeover of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. Family leader Fritz Thyssen broke with Hitler over the 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom against the Jews, was stripped of his citizenship and fortune, and was in a Nazi prison at the time the elder Bush sat on that board. There is no evidence that Prescott Bush, who owned just one share of Union Banking, had anything to do with the Thyssen political work in Germany.

 

Some critics go even further to accuse the president of having inherited ill-gotten profits from a Nazi slave-labor operation near the Auschwitz death camp in Poland. But the Polish company in which Prescott Bush had an interest, Silesian-American Corp., was stolen by the Nazis in 1939, the year before Auschwitz was built. Discussing this controversy, columnist Joe Conason of the New York Observer writes, "Henry Ford was a Nazi collaborator. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a Nazi sympathizer. Unless additional information emerges to indict him, Prescott Bush Sr. was neither. To misuse such terms for political advantage against his grandson is to trivialize very grave offenses."

 

Wow, you figured out how to cut and paste! Congrats

[kevbone]

what time zone are you in?

 

Does it matter, he is drinking Guiness.

[tvashtarkatena]

okay found this. Its crap.

 

 

This should be your signature.

[W]

I don't think this information "proves" somehow that the Bush family holds Nazi values. I think what it does illuminate, however, is how adherance to political ideologies, and the charging ahead with aggressive financial dealings by powerful individuals (private, political, or both) allow said individuals to form alliances that essentially provide moral and tacit support for truly despicable leaders and governments- in this historical case, Hitler, or in a more modern case- Saddam in the 1980's.

 

In the quest for actualizing self serving agendas, civil societies continue to make the mistake of not examining these blind alliances with nefarious individuals. Short sightedness always comes back to haunt.

[tvashtarkatena]

Short sightedness always comes back to haunt.

 

As does starting happy hour before noon.

[Winter]

So the principal figures in the Bush administration and the ideology that guides their actions are direct lineal descendants of the NAZI party, engaged in a ruthless conspiracy to undermine this country's political foundations and bend the apparatus of the state to enrich themselves and consolidate their power...while simultaneously acting as unwitting stooges for a Zionist conspiracy perpetrated by a cabal of Zionist plants who cleverly concealed both their Jewish origins and their designs to twist US policy to serve Israeli interests behind their...Jewish surnames and ancestry. Exquisite.

 

 

The Union Banking Corp was shut down by the US Govt for funding the Nazis - that's a fact.

 

The Bin Laden's were key investors in the Carlyle Group - that's a fact as well.

 

When are we allowed to ask questions about the Bush's "coincidental" connections to some of the worst villains in modern history? Oh its just because they were all rich and involved in business deals unrelated to their politics? I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorists for these facts to bother you.

[tvashtarkatena]

Is anyone even speculating at this point that the Bush family may not be complete and utter pricks?

[JayB]

There are plenty of factually correct statements in Mein Kampf, but the presence of isolated facts in the text doesn't necessarily validate Hitler's central argument.

 

In the case of the Bin Ladens, they've been the principal contractors for the Saudi Royal family for decades, and amassed a fortune as the result of that relationship. Given the size and scope of the conglomerate that they operate, and the wealth that they've amassed, they probably have stakes in an untold number of corporations, hedge-funds, etc. I'd be astonished if they didn't have equity stakes in every company in the S&P 500. So, the Bin Laden family - of which there are literally hundreds of members by this point - had a stake in the Carlyle Group - ergo...the Bush administration is complicit in a conspiracy to bring down the Twin Towers.

 

I have it on good authority that a member of the Bin Laden family consumed a beverage produced by the Coca Cola company. This is a fact. Ergo the CEO of Coca-Cola might as well have been on the plane with Atta or huddled in a cave with Osama.

 

 

[Seahawks]

Those who were soft on the Soviet Union during the Cold War just can't seem to forgive Commentary, the neocons, Reagan, and his friend and successor George W. Bush for their commitment to rid the world of the evil empire. And that may be why the president's harshest critics resort to such extreme distortions and lies about his policies and his person. Maybe they want to give evil a chance.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Who is making lots of money in Iraq?

 

Yeah and who makes money doing what you propose continually on this forum on a myriad of topics? Scum-bag, POS lawyers.