jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 The body is still on the mountain and they are not going to ID the body just yet. I imagine they will remove the deceased climber tomorrow in a Stokes litter by helo and bring him down for positive ID. They expect SAR climbers to head up tomorrow starting at 6am with air ops starting a little later. Tomorrow may be the last best day as the weatherman says another storm is coming.
mrd Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 ...obviously some thing unexpected happened. We call them ACCIDENTS. Untill you know what happened STFU! So far only one accident has happened. The two others I would still call an incident. Once the casualties are proved I would change the wording. However, ShiniGami is, to some extend, right.
billcoe Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 About 8 years ago I knew a very experienced husband/wife that died attempting a North side descent during the typical climbing season. Anyone that has peered over the North side from the summit knows it is serious business - Especially when a decision is made to climb in the winter. TFJ Sounds like this was this Dave and his wife Pat? More than 8 years ago. Pat died but Dave survived after lying in the snow for @3 days with a broken hip and some other broken stuff. I saw him in the hospital and he pretty much fully (physically) recovered. A toast to the ALL the volenters and rescue personal and to hoping that EVERYONE gets down OK. ________________________________________________________________ Next point: although the Oregon forum board has been jammed with lots of you new folks, most of us are happy that you've found what may be the best genuine source of real information about our sport in the Pacific NW. Sorry we had to meet like this. If you are a climber, stick around later and meet some fine folks, even Ivan is pretty solid and descent company!
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Fox has on Mathew Weaver right now who is a former PMR member and he is giving a climber's and SAR point of view. I'm glad they put him on.
ShiniGami Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 No, I don't have a Radiation suit when I go out into the wilderness. (I keep my Chemical suit at home with my gas masks and generator). But I have been out in snow above the treeline, and stayed a month+ with what I had with me. And I've had alot of fun doing it. As for speed, then you get what you asked for. OK, so I wouldn't go on the hardest route. But I'd get to the top and back alive. And you don't need to carry all the stuff I do on a technical climb, but you can carry a few extra pounds of food and fuel. The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as fast. To quote Bladerunner. Carry a few extra of the basics no matter what. I'm 48, been camping/hiking in the worst conditions possible since I was a kid growing up on a remote 1400 acre farm. So, no, I wouldn't go by the worst route, I'd go the safe route, and be prepared if I got stuck for 2 weeks. If you want to go the quickest/ hardest route, that's your call. I'd rather go up there and stay for a few weeks, see the daybreaks and sunsets, wake up in my snow cave, make coffee while still in my bag, get up and go outside and see the great view, that changes daily. And forget about my clients for a few weeks.
Salmon Fly Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Lambone - You're probably about my age. I've lived here my entire life and I assume you have too. You need to chill for a minute or two. You state that "these guys were prepared" but I assume that you are basing this on reported accounts rather than first-hand knowledge. Your earlier post about the other threads making fun of those posting here is juveville and insensitive - this is a national story in our backyard - I've only read a few insensitive posts and your posts are becoming just plain mean spirited. Salmon Fly
sk8ting fast Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 agreed you need to come down and be positive about this situation
ClimbingPanther Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Good grief, you leave the thread for less than 24 hours and it balloons to double its former size! So much for being a resource.
greenfork Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 ShiniGami, unless you know otherwise, I wouldn't speculate that they were unprepared. Do you know for a fact that they didn't have extra fuel? I don't think so. And fire-starter isn't too useful when you're 5000ft above the last tree. I haven't heard anything reported that suggests they were not reasonably prepared. So it is best not to make those accusations now. Here's to hoping they find the two remaining climbers alive
Hoping4Today Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Lambone - Your earlier post about the other threads making fun of those posting here is juveville and insensitive - this is a national story in our backyard - I've only read a few insensitive posts and your posts are becoming just plain mean spirited. True but I'm sure most who are posting recognize the type, all too common on every BB out there - insecure, immature, cliquish - and will discount his comments accordingly.
Frikadeller Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 If you go to altitude without emergency gear and supplies, you're asking for it. And I'm the kind of guy, that has to have gear and supplies enough for 1 to 2 weeks, if seperated from others. I make sure, if I'm seperated from my main pack, my daypack has basic food, fuel, firemaking. And if seperated from that, my LBV/Belt also has same backup. My personal safety kit is securely on my LBV/belt, and I sleep in that thing, never take it off when out. Wow, thats alot of gear to carry.... Do you use a wheelbarrow to cart that stuff around on a trail?? You do realize that the climb these guys did is not some hike into the woods to go huntin' with grandpa.. It's serious Mountaineering. There is no room for all that gear on a trip like this. Heck, just the climbing equipment almost fills your pack up, you would need two packs to carry all your jazz and the gear for the climb...
Lambone Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Salmon Fly, it doesn't do anyone any good to second guess these guys mistakes right now. I'm not the one doing that...From my perspective those posts are the "mean spirited" ones.
drdirtbag Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 No, I don't have a Radiation suit when I go out into the wilderness. (I keep my Chemical suit at home with my gas masks and generator). But I have been out in snow above the treeline, wtf? this must be Marc Twight yanking the cragrats' chain
Snowleopard Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 "Searchers also discovered a fading trail of two sets of footprints. One set led toward the summit, where they vanished in the wind; the other led downward in what appeared to be an aimless circle, Tiffany said." Accuracy unknown, from CNN.com article 11:22pm EST. So sad, so sad... My regrets to the family and hopes for the other 2. --Walter (aka Snowleopard)
Zeta Male Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I've been following this, and I seem to get the idea, they were not prepared. Prepared to climb, not prepared to be there for any length of time. I've only heard mention of a Gortex Bivy bag. Was this the ECWS system, and were they carrying the other parts. Did they have stoves, fuel, MREs, tent or even reflective mirrors. A gortex bivy is great without a tent in a snow cave. I always carry 2 to 4 bottles of fuel, even on 2 day outing, just in case. I have a MSR stove, and also a small German stove, about the size of a can of shoe polish. I also carry a can of shoe polish, as easy to light. And several small plastic boxes sealed with firestarter, waterproof matches, Trioxane, and a keyring, with a tiny led light, fingernail cutters and a P-38 can opener. One box on my belt, one on my vest, and 1 in my pack. A MRE in my belt pouch, 1 or 2 in my day pack, and 1 or 2 in my full pack. They all have Matches, Food, Toilet paper(Emergency kindleing) and other essentials. If I'm hiking a trail, even if I'm going 1 mile, I carry all this stuff. I also keep this pack in the back of my Van. I hope these guys are OK, but you also need to be preparred for the worst. Mt. Hood isn't a walk thru a wooded trail in the summer. Yeah, I got 60 lbs of extra crap in my pack, but I'd rather have the extra work lugging it around, then not have it when I needed it. And when you start leaving rope, and especially a Bivy bag behind, it's looking bad. Again, my prayers to the climbers and family. And next time you're going out, don't throw that second canister of fuel back into your vehicle to lighten your load by 2 lbs. Excellent post, to which I would only add that no climb plan should be regarded as complete without the climbers answering the question "What are we going to do if one of us breaks our ankle?".
Frikadeller Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I A MRE in my belt pouch, 1 or 2 in my day pack, and 1 or 2 in my full pack. They all have Matches, Food, Toilet paper(Emergency kindleing) and other essentials. Who the hell brings MRE's on a climbing trip?
cluck Posted December 18, 2006 Author Posted December 18, 2006 Wow - 30 new pages since I last signed on! I'm way to tired to read them all tonight so I'll just pass on a few notes from the south side from this weekend. Saturday was the first day we could finally do a thorough search of the entire mountain. Our hope was that someone would pop out of a snow cave and we'd spot them and be able to rescue them. We positioned ourselves and our equipment to be in position for a rescue if someone found these guys. Obviously, this did not happen. Our secondary goal for Saturday was to check out the upper mountain and see if it would be possible to push a team up to the summit on Sunday. We checked avi conditions (scary, but doable) and tried to establish a camp at Triangle Moraine (but couldn't due to high winds and extremely cold temps). A team was able to make it up to the hogsback but had to dig in and hide in a snow cave (-5 degrees F and 30 mph winds). The cold yesterday was brutal and several rescuers got frostnipped on fingers, toes, and faces. Today we shifted modes a bit. We learned that some clues had been spotted just below the summit on the north side so we focused all our efforts on getting teams onto the summit. A team of 2 made it up from the South Side and met several more as they were lowered by helicopter. They only had 2 hours of daylight to search the entire summit but were able to find a lot of clues including the obvious (and unfortunate) big clue. They couldn't positively identify the person we found because they couldn't find any wallet or anything in the 15 minutes or so they had before it got dark. There simply wasn't time to to a recovery today so they marked the location and I'm sure they'll return tomorrow (weather permitting, of course) to complete the recovery and follow up on the rest of the clues. Now I'm going to take a long, hot shower and then sleep for about a week. -Scott PS: Thanks very much everyone for respecting the closure of the upper mountain and staying out of our way. It really helped us out a lot and we really appreciate it.
joblo7 Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 i agreee . those guys were mountaineers! everything they did was serious; route,preparation,gear,cell,notes,attitude,previous experience etc. they are strangely enough good role models .then again no one can appreciate something they know little about.
layton Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I've been following this, and I seem to get the idea, they were not prepared. Prepared to climb, not prepared to be there for any length of time. I've only heard mention of a Gortex Bivy bag. Was this the ECWS system, and were they carrying the other parts. Did they have stoves, fuel, MREs, tent or even reflective mirrors. A gortex bivy is great without a tent in a snow cave. I always carry 2 to 4 bottles of fuel, even on 2 day outing, just in case. I have a MSR stove, and also a small German stove, about the size of a can of shoe polish. I also carry a can of shoe polish, as easy to light. And several small plastic boxes sealed with firestarter, waterproof matches, Trioxane, and a keyring, with a tiny led light, fingernail cutters and a P-38 can opener. One box on my belt, one on my vest, and 1 in my pack. A MRE in my belt pouch, 1 or 2 in my day pack, and 1 or 2 in my full pack. They all have Matches, Food, Toilet paper(Emergency kindleing) and other essentials. If I'm hiking a trail, even if I'm going 1 mile, I carry all this stuff. I also keep this pack in the back of my Van. I hope these guys are OK, but you also need to be preparred for the worst. Mt. Hood isn't a walk thru a wooded trail in the summer. Yeah, I got 60 lbs of extra crap in my pack, but I'd rather have the extra work lugging it around, then not have it when I needed it. And when you start leaving rope, and especially a Bivy bag behind, it's looking bad. Again, my prayers to the climbers and family. And next time you're going out, don't throw that second canister of fuel back into your vehicle to lighten your load by 2 lbs. STFU poser! Thanks for listing your backpacking gear, i'm sure you'd be rescued well before the summit, considering your 10 essentials encumbered bag of crap.
greenfork Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Scott/Cluck, thanks for doing what you're doing!
Zeta Male Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 No, I don't have a Radiation suit when I go out into the wilderness. (I keep my Chemical suit at home with my gas masks and generator). But I have been out in snow above the treeline, and stayed a month+ with what I had with me. And I've had alot of fun doing it. As for speed, then you get what you asked for. OK, so I wouldn't go on the hardest route. But I'd get to the top and back alive. And you don't need to carry all the stuff I do on a technical climb, but you can carry a few extra pounds of food and fuel. The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as fast. To quote Bladerunner. Carry a few extra of the basics no matter what. I'm 48, been camping/hiking in the worst conditions possible since I was a kid growing up on a remote 1400 acre farm. So, no, I wouldn't go by the worst route, I'd go the safe route, and be prepared if I got stuck for 2 weeks. If you want to go the quickest/ hardest route, that's your call. I'd rather go up there and stay for a few weeks, see the daybreaks and sunsets, wake up in my snow cave, make coffee while still in my bag, get up and go outside and see the great view, that changes daily. And forget about my clients for a few weeks. I like your style and wisdom, ShiniGami.
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Sgt. Tiffany of Sherrifs Dept was just on Fox and he said that they have a pretty good idea of what happened with the 2 caves and equipment and that they plan on explaining such tomorrow.
mrd Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 ShiniGami, unless you know otherwise, I wouldn't speculate that they were unprepared. Do you know for a fact that they didn't have extra fuel? I don't think so. And fire-starter isn't too useful when you're 5000ft above the last tree. I haven't heard anything reported that suggests they were not reasonably prepared. So it is best not to make those accusations now. Here's to hoping they find the two remaining climbers alive That depends how reliable is and how one would interpret this information: "He learned his dad was dug into a cave on the northern face of Mount Hood near the summit. Half an orange remained in his food supply, he was lying on his backpack to stay off the snow, and he was weak, cold and wet." Source: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/121606dnmetclimbers.11dd082b.html
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