Mountaineers

[Squid]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ready for some reconciliatoin and perhaps a big group hug until we're all feeling better. How does that sound?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

also- what happens if the boot path to the summit gets snowed over? what then? just feel my way down and hope for the best?

 

you can learn routefinding skills on your own. just go on "safer" outings - off trail scrambles for example. There are lots of good ones in the PNW.

 

doing route research is smart, and knowing what to expect is a good idea. On Hood, for example, some people get lost in whiteouts coming down. Just plan for how you'd deal with the conditions coming down (i.e. what compass bearings and landmarks are important).

 

you can invest in a GPS and learn to use it to set way points. but don't rely on it always working - still need map and compass skills.

 

but wait, I guess that's 10 essentials, so we should just leave it behind, so we can be cool - unlike those mounties

[RuMR]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ready for some reconciliatoin and perhaps a big group hug until we're all feeling better. How does that sound?

not until they wash those smelly polypro undies!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

KK,

 

I dont see anybody here arguing that you have to climb grade IV or V routes to enjoy climbing. I don't see anybody arguing that your way of approaching learning about the sport is wrong, either. What I see is you saying that somebody else's approach is "WRONG." And you take a cheap shot at me just because - what - I pursued the sport more aggressively at a younger age than you did?

 

I never took a shot at you. I just said I would never be comfortable learning on my own, without the benefit of a more experienced person. That person, could be a friend, a relative, a guide service, or some instructor in a climbing club.

 

You don't see me putting down anybody for being a peak-bagger or a newbie and I don't put you down for being dedicated to promoting the Mountaineers. How 'bout you agree not to put the rest of us down if we don't agree with you?

 

who said I was promoting the Mounties? see above - my PERSONAL feeling is that *I* would not be comfortable learning to climb on my own, and if someone asks my advice (or posts such a question here), it would be to get instruction or mentoring from someone with experience. Someone like YOU for example - doesn't have to be the Mounties, Boealps, or whatever

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

how can you say that after stating that learning on your own would help to find your way into the next edition of accidents????

 

Maybe I'm just a pussy who is afraid of getting hurt or killed, so I take it more cautiously.

 

When I mentioned Accidents in Mountaineering, it just seems that some people don't take things seriously enough, or take chances that they shouldn't. That doesn't mean I'm talking about you or matt or dirty harry or anybody else here. maybe you all did things the right way - on your own. but I don't thing everyone does it so well on their own.

 

btw, I freely admit that when it comes to rock climbing, "I am so suck"

[RuMR]

ok...so i went back through this thread...kk pretty much said you get instruction from mountie instructors but you could also hook up with other "experienced" climbers consistently...

 

i think the only thing that spooked him was the whole teaching yourself thing...

 

and honestly, there's been a couple of times i got reeeeeeaaaal lucky...perhaps "his" way isn't so bad, although it wasn't available to me (east coast and no $$$) 20 years ago...maybe these days, its not such a bad way to go (to get started at the least)

 

Oh...and squid, this is not a "group-hug"...

[mattp]

Sorry, KK, but it sure looked to me like you were taking a shot at me when you wrote that not everybody should aspire to be as "great" as I am. I swear I could see the html code [snear] [/snear] bracketing what you wrote. But perhaps you meant no sarcasm.

 

I sure thought you were saying that self-teaching is dangerous and even perhaps irresponsible. Maybe that isn't what you said either.

[RuMR]

how can you say that after stating that learning on your own would help to find your way into the next edition of accidents????

 

Maybe I'm just a pussy who is afraid of getting hurt or killed, so I take it more cautiously.

 

When I mentioned Accidents in Mountaineering, it just seems that some people don't take things seriously enough, or take chances that they shouldn't. That doesn't mean I'm talking about you or matt or dirty harry or anybody else here. maybe you all did things the right way - on your own. but I don't thing everyone does it so well on their own.

 

btw, I freely admit that when it comes to rock climbing, "I am so suck"

 

nothing "pussy" in that approach...

i shoulda been in there at least a hundred times...just got lucky...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Sorry, KK, but it sure looked to me like you were taking a shot at me when you wrote that not everybody should aspire to be as "great" as I am. I swear I could see the html code [snear] [/snear] bracketing what you wrote. But now I see I was wrong.

 

Ready for that group hug now?

 

I meant as "great a climber". my impression is that you have some good skills, but I don't know you. you once talk ed with authority about climbing Liberty Ridge and being comfortable downclimbing the steep ice, or you shouldn't be there. based on what little I know about the route (never been there, and it's probably not in my future if I want to stay married), I get the impression that you are pretty good. Also based on people I know who have met you.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

nothing "pussy" in that approach...

i shoulda been in there at least a hundred times...just got lucky...

 

Well, I almost got hit by a bread-loaf-sized rock last weekend, and that's not the first time I got lucky myself either.

[dshigeno]

The Mounties Basic Course doesn't teach anything about rock anchors.

 

That's mostly true.

 

Plark42, with your glacier skills and experience, you might consider looking into the Mountaineers' Crag Climbing course. Considerable emphasis is placed on understanding and building rock anchors, as well as dealing with sport/top-rope anchors as well. Basic course graduation is not a pre-requisite for the Crag Course. More info at:

 

Seattle Mountaineers Crag Climbing Course

 

Could I place out of MOFA with a WFR?

 

Yes. The Basic, Intermediate, and Crag courses all allow a holder of WFR certification to pass out of the MOFA requirement. Other Mountaineers courses probably allow this as well, I think.

 

Good luck and have fun out there...

[AlpineK]

I see you boys have been fighting a lot.

 

Just so I'm clear on my earlier point I think the mounties are an option worth considering if you want to learn general mountaineering, but I'd agree with Rudy that the mounties are no place to learn real rock climbing skills.

 

The Mounties can be a way to meet partners, but I'd say that you run the same risks that you do looking for partners on this site. What you need to do is learn how to ask the right questions and follow up questions of a potential partner. Don't just ask how hard do you lead ask what routes your potential partner has done in the recent past. If their statements on leading match up with the routes they've climbed then that's good. I'd also say that as a first climbing trip you should go somewhere where you know that you are well within your skill level. If things work out then you can do some crazy stuff.

 

I learned general climbing skills as a teen with the mounties, but I got most of my real technical skills by climbing with friends after I left the mounties.

 

Have fun climbing in the Cascades.

[fatswaller]

Don't do it pops it ain't healthy.

I would be kicked out and booted on my first day.

I was better off climbin' with chuckles and the guzzler

than those clowns.

[mattp]

The guzzler? You a friend of "the guzzler?"

[plark42]

I guess I have the general skills already- NOLS prepared me pretty well..

 

True or False- the mountaineers is a great club to meet competent climbing partners... I like the idea of taking 2-5 years as the intermediate course.. and meeting some people on the way.

 

What are some alternatives for meeting ptrs? Climbing websites? Climbing Gyms? If I want to do predominately glacier climbs, then wouldn't I benefit most from taking the mounties intermediate course and meeting those peeps?

 

I like the idea of having a club that I can always turn to if I can't do my own thing (and find the people to do it with). I have had trouble with that in the past-- people backing out, or getting freaked once we start heading up the glacier. Ex. Mazama on adams!! (which is super straight forward). My 2 partners just didn't feel up to it once they saw REAL crevasses.. what the hell.. (they had claimed to have been on several rope teams even up Rainier and Baker). I for one did not want to go in front without my ropemates knowing waht to do if a bridge failed or something similar.

 

I think being a newbie to the NW (but not to mountaineering) the mountaineers would be a good place to start to meet people and get back into the swing of things.

 

end of discussion!!

[catbirdseat]

 

The Mounties can be a way to meet partners, but I'd say that you run the same risks that you do looking for partners on this site. What you need to do is learn how to ask the right questions and follow up questions of a potential partner. Don't just ask how hard do you lead ask what routes your potential partner has done in the recent past. If their statements on leading match up with the routes they've climbed then that's good. I'd also say that as a first climbing trip you should go somewhere where you know that you are well within your skill level. If things work out then you can do some crazy stuff.

Thus far, I have climbed with about a dozen people that I've met through this site and there isn't a one I wouldn't climb with again. I've had good experiences with all of them. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I'm adaptable. Maybe I've learned to ask the right questions. Certainly, climbing in the Mountaineers I've learned to get along with a wide variety of personality types and skill levels.

[plark42]

Do you think the courses offered by the mountaineers are worth the time and structure? Why not just spend 1500 bucks for a 8 day intermediate mountaineering course..

 

(The courses are what attract me to the mountaineers)

[archenemy]

Do you think the courses offered by the mountaineers are worth the time and structure? Why not just spend 1500 bucks for a 8 day intermediate mountaineering course..

 

(The courses are what attract me to the mountaineers)

I have a couple of mountaineering books I will GIVE you if you will just stop posting to this thread.

[catbirdseat]

If you have the bread and want to be a self-starter, do the 8 day course. No question the guides are pros. It's their life, their living and their livelihood. They better be good.

 

If you go that route, you need to be totally stoked to climb, fit and ready to go. You need to be prepared to learn a lot on your own and practice a lot on your own. Any course, whether the Mountaineers or a guide service is just a start. The rest is up to you. If you want to get good you have to climb a lot right after the course or you've wasted your time and money.

[plark42]

I own a ton myself.. they don't teach you the experience you need to lead a group of friends up a glacier. no more posting. I am done.

[Rad]

"Just Do It".

 

CC.Com group outings can be good - it's like speed dating with ropes - you can watch people to see how competent they are (where's that brake hand?) - and if you don't click with a partner you can switch on the next route or on the next outing.

 

Ask yourself: Can I trust my life to this person? Can I spend ten hours with this person without going insane?

 

Climbing ability may actually be less important than these two.

[tomtom]

Climbing with CC.Com'ers

[mattp]

Plark:

 

One very simple idea I don't think you will find in your crevasse rescue book or be told in a workshop is this:

 

If you are travelling in a party of two, the fancy self-rescue system you practiced over and over again will very likely not work.

 

If you are travelling in a party of five or more and soembody falls in, as long as they didn't fall in unroped and end up wedged between ice walls you are almost certainly going to have sufficient strength/rope/etc. to pull them out no matter how little you have practiced any technical rescue skills.

 

There is plenty to learn, but no matter how much you learn, these general rules will probably apply.

[Off_White]

Looks like we're done here, move along now. Fat Kid fun time has been moved here